Force 50 hp, hard to start cold although timed and synced properly

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
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I have controlls from quicksilver, so I guess they are original.
Unfortunately the pics will have to wait untill I get on the water :(
But when I get there I'll post them if there still is a problem.
Thanks for your input!
 

jerryjerry05

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May 7, 2008
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What year is the motor?
​Add a signature with the motor info.
Year, model etc.
 

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
Messages
57
I believe the motor to be 92-94 ish. Its a longshaft electric start.
Interestingly enough it had a red stator from 96 in it, propably not original though.
Stamp on the carb says 92 so thats where I have that number from.
Serial number starts with OE, Seloc says it must be a 94 because of that.
Lower unit is still an older one.

I hope that helped. I always was a little puzzled by the year anyway
 

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
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Apparently the engine is nowhere near my place at the moment.
​Will take some as soon as the boat gets launched. That will
​propably be in mid April though
 

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
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Just a question aside: Is there a way of making a "Wema" rpm gauge work on this motor?
​I got an offer to buy one for 15 euros thats why Im asking. They are usually about 80 euros.
​This Force already has the red stator in it if that helps. I couldnt find any information in my service
​manual about how many pulses the stator sends each revolution, so any input would be greatly appreciated.
​Will have to get to a conclusion until tomorrow though.
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
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Oct 8, 2007
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If it is a 1992 or later motor, it should have a 12 pole stator. That is, 12 coils that make up the stator assy. If that's so, then it will produce 12 pulses per revolution.

If it's the older style ignition system, it will have 20 poles/coils, thus 20 pulses per revolution. The tachs for 20 pole stators are much harder to find.
 

Nordin

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As pnwboat says, if you are able to count the poles/coils of the stator, you know have many pulses it produce.
Or if you imagine it has "many poles" then it is 20 pole stator.
Look at the pictures at outboardignition, maybe that will help as you are far away from the engine.

Prestolite ign.system (blue or black CDI box about 10 x 5 cm in square) use 20 pole, Mercury style use 12 pole (black CDI box about 15 x8 cm in square).
 
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ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
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Ok thank you very much for your answers. I finally decided against buying because there was no option to set the gauge to different pulse settings.
​But again your input was greatly appreciated and if I decide to have another go at it I know exactly what to look for!
​Now I'll just have to wait for the bypass cover to come and some nicer weather haha.

Best wishes Leo
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
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Oct 8, 2007
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!2 pole or 12 pulses seem to be pretty common here in the US for outboard motors, so I would think that it wouldn't be that difficult to find one.

Yes nice warm weather would be a good thing! Enough of all this snow and ice.
 

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
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No Title

Heres a little, partly unpleasant update:

​Got the boat in the water, the motor runs and idles well after I adjusted the float height, the repaired bypass cover seems to do its job.
Unfortunately the outboard jumps out of gear if I apply about 1/6 of throttle :(.
Tore the lower unit apart and found a worn dog clutch and forward gear. Reverse looks pretty much ok.
​Too me the forward and reverse gear look identical so I wonder if I could just swap it around?
Otherwise I'm thinking of having it machined. I wonder what the costs are though.
As a matter of fact I dont think that I can afford a whole new set of gears or a used unit.
​Any thoughts are appreciated!
 

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ZandoR

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Sep 5, 2016
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I just noticed that the pinion is damaged as well. One tooth is missing a chunk, the others are a bit damaged but not too bad. Is it possible to reuse it?
If any body has one up for sale I would be willing to pay a reasonable price for it.
​Does anybody now what kind of a material the gears are made of?
Maybe it is possible to weld material on to it to grind it afterwards?
 

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Nordin

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Yes you can swap the forward and reverse gear and then you turn the clutch dog 180 dgr. The reverse will jump out of gear if you give to much thottle BUT you normally not give so much throttle in reverse, so you can live with that.

The pinion gear damage is a more difficult issue. You can not weld it because the surface is heat-treated. It is hardened and when you weld at it may anneal.
You have to change it.

I may have a pinion gear but there was two different typ of gears. The older typ had lager bearring then the later.
Are you able to pull of the bearring and measure the diameter of the pinion gear surface?
 

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
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Thanks for the quick response. I just measured it, came out at exactly 22 mm. Sorry for the metric unit
 

Nordin

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Well I will check it out tomorrow.
Metric is perfect for me . I live in Sweden so is metric no problem (I work with US OB at my free time so SAE with inch and foot are no problem too).
 

jerryjerry05

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IF?? the pinion was working before??
​I'd just use it.
Who know how long it was working like that?

You find the missing piece?
​Then someone knew it was gone and used it anyway.

​The dog and F gear can be cut down and made to work.
​Just go slow and when cutting down don't let it get too hot.
A dremel can do it.
Or maybe a machine shop.

Look on e-bay

​Add a signature to your posts.
​Tell about the motor(year0model etc.)
Maybe your location?
It's easier to see it in your posts and not have to go looking for the motor info.
​That way we know for sure what we're working on or looking up parts.
 

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
Messages
57
@jerryjerry: To me it looks like other teeth are just about to break as well. Im affraid to ruin all the other gears as a consequence.

For swapping the gears I would have to remove the front bearing which seems to be pressed on.
Went on Youtube, but it seems that there is no way of getting it off without destroying it.
Also looked on Ebay for a new lower or a new pinion but theres just nothing. So if anybody has one laying around please write me PM,
I cant wait to get it back on the water!
Next time get a peek at the serial number I*ll add it to the signature.

Have a great day!
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
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You'll need a bearing separator and a press and maybe a torch.
​There was a pinion on E-bay look up the part# and see if that helps?
 

ZandoR

Seaman
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Sep 5, 2016
Messages
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My modell Nr. is one of those OExxxxxx ones. For a parts number I used 819261A 1.
I found this one http://www.ebay .com/itm/USED-1969-CHRYSLER-45HP-4555-BEVELED-PINION-GEAR-WITH-BEARING/282344007370?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D47125d0d3af74c1c8f34d5aa4abc5008%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D262640846776 on Ebay. I wonder if it fits though.
As of what I read pretty much anything from chrysler should fit. Any thoughts on this one?

I appreciate your help!
 

Nordin

Commander
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Jun 12, 2010
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Many things are similar and will fit from Chrysler to Force 35/45/50/55Hp and vise verse.

BUT as I said earlier in this thread the pinion and bearing had different diameters and even the tooth was sharper . Early gearcase had a larger diameter bearing.
If you take a close look at that Ebay sales ad, the teeth has a tip.

I do not think this pinion will fit. It will not fit in the hole/bearingseat in the LU housing.
The diameter is to large.
 
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