"Magnapower II CD ignition (had) most problems on Chryslers"

[tevake]

Frank Acampora wrote this on 7.2.2013, but I am just now confronted with the choice of whether to invest $$$ in rejuvenating my 1977 Sailor 250, which was used only occasionally in 1980, then winterized and stored until recently. After renewing carb innards, fuel & water pumps I find it will not start, and observe very weak spark on both cylinders... Referring to the Chrysler Service Manual {8/79) doesn't help much for doing charge & ignition coil output tests, because it wants me to use: "Trigger Pulse Detector" and" C.D. Ignition Tester",...The SELOC on Johnson/Evinrudes, available from the library, is much more helpful for finding work-arounds, so I just ordered the Chrysler version from amazon, used. But here's my question, is it worth it to try to find and invest &100s in bringing this thing back to life, or should I just offer the corpse for parting out? I dont yet see a viable way to convert it (1977, Mo.: 100HA) back to points/condenser, and I read that the CDI 155-3301 is both/either unreliable/unavailable. I would very much prefer to go with the opinion of someone with experience, who doesn't have something to sell....thanks much for your interest and opinions.

 

[Nordin]

Your post is confusing me a bit.
You are talking about Magnapower II ignition and a 250 Sailor with model number 100HA.
CDI partnr. 155-3301 as the switchbox.

First the 250 Sailor 100HA is 10Hp 1976 or 1977 made for sailboat with extra extentions of the leg to fit a sailboat. This small Chryslers 10 and 15Hp had the Magnapower III ignitioin system and CDI partnr. for the switchbox is 116-0301.

CDI 155-3301 is not existing, I think you mean 115-3301 which is for the larger engines 3-4 cyl. with distributor and even the 45 and 55Hp with Magnapower.
All this CDI replacement systems are still available.

The Magnapower II ignition was only at the 55, 60 and 65Hp dual carb engines and the 105 and 130Hp 4 cyl. engines and maybe 120Hp too.
The Magnapower II was a poor system. The intention was good with few moving parts and a modual system. But the design was poor.
Many system failed really fast and in 1978 Chrysler offered a retrofit kit during warranty and this was the Prestolite system that was on the engines from about 1982 until Mercury start to put their system on th eengines in about 1992.

Alot of Magnapower II system worked really well and are still in use. I have two engines myself with this system. One 55Hp and one 65Hp 1976.

About if you shall put money in this Sailor 250, it is up to you. The switchbox is not cheap but if it is a well runing engine except for the ignition system it maybe worth it instead of buying an for you unknow engine.

As it has been stored since 1980 until now it maybe need an overaul and then it maybe work as a champ again.

The choise is up to you, we can only give you some advise and help you with troubleshooting etc.

 

[tevake]

thanks Nordin! I saw the "Magnapower III" on the cowling/bonnet, but only read about the Magnapower II everywhere. Also, my Chrysler service manual refers to the "9.9, 12 & 15 H.P., 250 & 280 Sailor Outboard Motors", but the cowling reads "10 Sailor"... What you said about the proper CDI switch box really helps, so I will consider buying it - you have not mentioned if it has a better reputation, but I assume it does? CDI also offers a "2 cyl. ignition tester" (511-0401}
The tests that I want to do for the weak sparks are mentioned in my thread, and I will do them when I get the SELOC Chrysler service manual, . Do you have any suggestions regarding the testers in my thread quoted out of that oem manual - I cant buy them, for sure!. There is noone here in South Florida that I know of who would know these old Chryslers, and Franz is too far away. Do you know of a way I might someone down here who could do these tests for me? I have done a fair amount of work on gas engines over the yrs, and the SELOC (for Evinrudes) sayspg 5-42) : "...no way...to accurately test the complete system....without the special items listed...Continuity Meter, Ohmmeter, Timing Light, S-80 or M-80 neon test light- with 1 1/2v batt adapter, Neon spark tester" I know how to use all of the above, except the "neon test light". It also describes a test for the rectifier, by " d/c the stater leads to the rectifier".
Besides the work listed in my thread I have also checked for continuity at the terminal block, and got compression of 90psi. Engine turns at previous cranking speed via electrical starter.

 

[Nordin]

Tevake the Magnapower III has alot better reputation then the Magnapower II.

I can not help you about someone who might be closer to you. I am in Sweden Europ? Scandinavia. Maybe if you need "pro" help you can phone Franz at Franz Marine.
Nice guy I think. I have bought spareparts from him and he is really service minded.

Maybe I talk to much now because I have never worked on the Magnapower III system (at the small Chryslers as 10 and 15Hp and soo on) myself.
BUT I am quite sure this system is very similar to the system that are on the 20 and 25Hp late Chryslers (1980-1984 I think) and also the 25 and 35Hp Force from 1986 and up to 1991.
After some research I see that CDI use the same trigger for this systems..

You do not need all the tools and test equipment that SELOC and Clymers says.
A timing light, a VOM and a DVA adapter is enought.
If your are a bit electronic incliend you can make a home made DVA adapter for a few dollars. And it works fine I have made two myself.
It is not a hard work. Google DVA adapter and you will find alot of schematics of it.
There are some threads here at this forum too that handle this.

I do not know if outboardignition (dot com) or CDI has the troubleshoot guide for the small Chryslers with Mag. III but it has for the Force 35Hp and as I said before the systems is very similar.

All CD ignition system for OB has similar values for the different output from trigger, CD module etc.
You "only" need to trace the right wires for measuring. Clymers have the wiring diagrams in their book, I know because I have it.
If I have to prevail you, buy the Clymers book instead of SELOC.

Ouput from triggers........0,5 up to about 1,5V (DVA) and resistance about 30-50 Ohms.
Output from CD module to ignition coil........180-250V (DVA).

Resistance ignition coil 250 and up to 700 Ohms.

Hope this will help you.

 

[tevake]

thanks, Nordin, there is a lot of info in your last post; I will study it and follow up with a more detailed reply later
Yes, I saw the you tube vidio (Dangarmarine, NSWales) on making your own DVA adapter and I have built radios and other circuits, so I will do that, thanks.
I will buy the Clymer manual, as u suggest., and I will check with CDI for the troubleshooting guide on the Forde 35hp.
Ultimately, I want to be able to troubleshoot any o/b I have on my cat, located off shore somewhere. So this is a perfect opportunity to get committed to this one I have, which had great torque for driving a large sailboat...And , now that I have reassurance that the Magnapower III is reliable from CDI, I will buy it - IF the tests show that it is at fault for the weak spark. Thanks for now. (ps: my favorite Swede of all time is/was Gunnel Lindblom...)

 

[Nordin]

If you want to have the right values for troubleshooting, phone Franz at Franz Marine or send him an e-mail.

Remember that I just give you advise about in which range the values should be. This not the spec. from the factory.

BTW weak spark can depend on bad/corroded wires and take a close look at the connection of the HT wire in the rubber boot.
It can be rust at the spring which is impaled to the HT wire. This is not so uncommon.

 

[tevake]

Hi Nordin, et al: Well, I finally solved the no spark issue: I found a stater/trigger and 2 ignition coils on eBay, got them installed (old stater looked fine and gave the same "open" continuity reading as the replacement (?!), but I noticed that the new stater had a ground wire connector screwed to its frame, and I remembered thinking that the old stater might have lost a ground whin I rebuilt the fuel pump. so I fashioned a new ground from stater to powerhead, and got SPARK! Now it will start, but only if: a) I give choke and turn to 1/2 throttle. I then fine tuned the idle screw down to a fair value, But, but, now it is very hard to start, cold and with full choke - i.e.; the settings it should have to start it normally don't get a start up. only if I give it more than half throttle, so that when it fires up it also goes to WOT. then I can bring it back down to idle. But if I shut it off, it wont start up again until the next day. I rebuilt the carb a while back; maybe I didn't do a good enuf job???

 

[Nordin]

Have you tune it properly?
Clean the carb, set the floatlevel and floatdrop, adjust the throttle pick up point and set the timing advance. Change the fuelpump diaprhagm too.
If you bought the Clymer manual (Chrysler 1962-1984) it will give you all details.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The statementI then fine tuned the idle screw down to a fair value, But, but, now it is very hard to start, cold and with full choke - i.e.; the settings it should have to start it normally don't get a start up).
​What screw did you adjust? The screw ON the carb? That's a air/fuel mix for idle operation.
Set it at 1 and 1/2 turns out and leave it till you can put it in the water.

 

[tevake]

Thanks guys, I will rebuild the carb again , maybe I did something wrong the first time, as I did not change the settings on the float (reason: it had run fine when I winterized 3 decades ago...I also already replaced the pump diaphragm, and checked its output by disconnecting it from the carb, starting the motor, and watching adequate pulsing gas stream. The reason I had to lean out the idle screw is because the exhaust was so smokey it was obviously way too rich. I ended up almost a complete turn back in to get the max idle rpms, and least amount of smoke. That was yesterday. Today, it would start cold, on full choke, and throttle advanced about 1/3 way from the cam timing mark. BUT, after I reved it up some it begin to lose revs, and die, regardless of how much throttle I gave it! I pulled the plugs, they were pretty dry. That's when I checked the fuel pump output. SO, it seems the fuel starvation problem isn't related to the idle screw setting. I cant put the motor on a boat yet, if every time I throttle up it dies out on me within 15 seconds, or do you mean, if I had it on a boat I could see how it handles under full load?