Timing

SkiDad

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no problem. now that you have your timing correct you will probably need to re-adjust your idle up or down depending on where it's at now, timing affects the idle - best to do it on the water in forward gear after you take it for a 3 minute cruise. that adjustment is at bottom of the tower with larger flat head screw and lock nut. You want it around 750 rpm in gear. don't forget to tighten the idle locknut.
 

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waterboy84

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Thanks for that info. Speakibg of resetting idle i now have to reset carb air mixture and idle as well. I recently took carbs apart to give the a good clean and to see if maybe a rebuild might be needed how ever carbs looked amazing when i opened them.
As i said. My boat was and still is running great. I just notice a abnormal idle and as i mention it will sometimes stall.
However the stalling out is not all the time. It realy does that. But a proper running engine will have a nice sounding healthy idle and wont just stall out of no where.
As i mentioned the abnormarl idle sound i was hearing was like it wanted to stall almost as if idle speed was to low or maybe air mixture just wasnt set properly.
Another thing is when you first take off is feels like is has aliitle hesitation and like alittle bogging sound and i can feel and hear alittle viberation.
But once you gain alittle speed it all goes away and runs smooth.
So i wanted to go through everything.
Make sure timing is perfect and i want to reset air mixture on carbs so i know all that stuff is perfect.
Also as i mention i put all new fuel lines on motor along with a new fuel filter.
Now i was watching a video that frank ob this forum had post about timing. And something was introduced to me from that video that i knew nothing about.
The guy on the video pointed out the enrichment valve. I didnt know that was part of the choke. Once he pointed out the enrichment valve and said how the viberation can interferr with that and cause running problems.
Well thats exactly basically what im noticing why my motor stalls and on take has that hisitation.
The enrichment valve on my motor was pretty loose. Like it was just hanging there.
I picked it up to set it straight and got it tighten but not over compressed tightened due to the rubber gromit.
So with that enrichment valve just hanging there and not being tightened up and just pretty much flopping around and catching the viberation could it be possible that with the enrichment valve being loose like that is why i was having these issues.
 

SkiDad

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i think you are on to something with the fuel enrichment thing. I wouldn't rebuild the carbs, cleaning is enough unless you have serious issues. As for some roughness on take off, most of the force engines are a little rough around 2000 rpm but you just power past it. sometimes mine sputters slightly of first take off of the day.
 

waterboy84

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Yes thats about right. About 2000rmpms is where i notice that issue. Far as carbs didnt plan on a rebuild.
Boat has been running great besides the little hesitation and seems to be idling alittle to low.
Therefore i just wanted to go through it and make sure timing was where it needs to be and make sure the air mixture on carbs are proper and throttle cable is adjusted properly and carbs are sync and everything is adjusted properly. Other then that. Ill get that timing at 32 and get carbs air mixture set and it should be good to good.
I appreciate your info and help. My wife is pushing me get get this stuffed fixed up before the weekend. She is looking forward to going out to taking kids out and spending a day at one of the islands. Ill update this after wards and let you know if i still have that little hesitation. Thanks again
 

waterboy84

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Skidad. I got that timing issues fixed. Its set at 32 degrees as we spoke about.
Beings i live on a lake i took my boat to the boat ramps and put it in the water to give it a test run.
I got timing set at 32
I got air mixture on carbs set one turn out from lightly seated as the information your manual said.
I got new gas lines all through out motor. New fuel filter.
Also spark plugs are new.
Also i cleaned both carbs.
However i test drove boat today and it ran great. No problems except for one thing.
Hope maybe you could help me figure out this issue cause its got me puzzled. When you are giving boat throttle everything is good.
It takes off great no hesitation and no bogging.
But when you slow boat down and shift boat into neutral the rpms raise up to 1500-1600 and will just stay there.
But if i shut the boat off and restart motor it idles at 1100-1200 no problem until i start cruising again and then put it back into neutral the rpms raise again to 1500-1600. Any idea what is causing rpms to raise when boat is put into neutral.
 

tommarvin

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You may need a 1/4 inch of tension on the throttle cable so it holds the idle screw against the block,.
 

SkiDad

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Mine does that too. I think it's just chewing through excess gas that's in there. I have fought it but there is no way to get rid of it on my boat.

If I wait about 30 seconds it will drop down to a more correct number like 1100. Or I just shut it off bc we are usually changing skiers. It's not hurting your engine at all. The only thing you can do is lower the idle a tad like maybe 1/8 turn to minimize ( maybe). Leave all your other settings alone since it's running so well.

You are more concerned about your idle speed in gear. Which can be between 700-800. You need that high enough so you don't stall.

Maybe jerryjerry05 has a suggestion.

The real question is did you pick up any rpm at top speed?
 

waterboy84

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Lol. Skidad.
Im glad you asked that question. The anwser is no. Rpms didnt change.
Still running 4500rpms and still crises at 35mph.
As far as that higher idle when shifting to neutral isnt normal. My boat never done this. This is the second time i put boat in the water and it has done this. I have had this boat for alittle over a year and it has never jumped to 1500-1600 rpms. When shifting in neutral rpms would go from 700-800 Up to 1100 and stay there.
They have never jumped that high. Hmmm. Looks like im gonna have to figure out why its doing this.
Also skidad. After i made all these adjustments my motor doesnt smoke now as much as it did. Thank god.
When i took carbs apart to clean them i took out the air mixture crews but i counted the turns that it was set at. And they were set at 11/2 turns out. And i seen in that pic you sent me of specs carbs should be set at 1 turn out. I did just that and put the at one turn out.
So im guessing becuz of all the smoke carbs wasnt set right.
Thanks again for all help and info. Least now i got timing perfect and carbs set properly.
 

SkiDad

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well if you figure it out let us know, my boat has always done it. as for 1 turn out that is probably good, but the exact way to set it is to go in until bucks or sags and note position then go out until runs rough and then go in between the settings. Jerry usually says turn it in till it coughs or bucks and then back it out 1/2 turn. never leave your final setting below 1 turn.
 
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Nordin

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I would suggest to set the air/fuel mixscrew at 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 turn out from seated.
Since the new issue about the idle appeared after you set the screw at 1 turn out instead of 1 1/2.

Turning out the screw make the airfuel mix richer and it will affect the idle to get lower until it is to rich, then it start to load up.
Turning it in will lean the mix and increase the idle unill it will be to lean and the engine stalls.

BUT do not set the screw leaner then 1 turn out from seated even if the idle will be better. It can end up in melted pistons as an affect of to lean mixture.
 

waterboy84

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ok so i just figured i would throw this solution at you guys and tell me if it makes sense.
Sense the trigger will work as a idle.
However. No i did not mess with the triggers timing setting. It still sits at the 32 as its suppose to.
However im thinking i have my idle screw in to far and when i bring throttle lever back to neutral its not bring the trigger back far enough to operate in neutral rpms.
Meaning. With the idle stop screw in to far its not allowing the throttle tower to drop back and allow trigger to not be so advanced.
I have my idle stop screw in almost all the way. I know that the idle stop screw should not be screwed in almost all the way.
Just wanted to throw this info at you guys and maybe you guys could tell me if that makes any sense.
Im gonna make these adjustments and unscrew idle stop screw so that the trigger is able to drop back alittle more.
So as i said im gonna make these adjustments and take the boat to lake for test run and see if thats the problem. Just wanted to get some feed back before i make these adjustments and run it to find out if getting the trigger to drop back alittle more by unloosening idle stop screw would hurt anything.
After starring at the motor and thinking and realizing that the more the trigger is advanced rpms will raise.
My boat has never done this so im thinking idle stop screw is in to far and trigger needs to drop back alittle more. Does that make any sense
 

SkiDad

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all you are saying is lowering the idle. one thing you should still check is see if your carb butterflys are flat with the engine off and full throttle - if they are not quite flat then you can lengthen the rod between the tower and the cam till it's flat.

This will allow you to back up your idle screw since the lengthened rod will be pushing the cam more forward ?? (my thoughts anyhow, not sure if I'm right) If the butterflies are flat do not make any adjustments to rod.
 
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waterboy84

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Nordin. Thanks for that info. I been contemplate on setting air mixture to one of theose settings. 11/8 or 11/4. Im gonna take my boat out to the lake again later this evening and put carbs at both of those settings and see how it does. Ill probley go with the 11/8 becuz i got it at 1 turn out now but id rather run it at 11/8 so i no its not to close to be less then the 1 turn
 

waterboy84

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I will up date later this evening ob its running status. I think with carbs adjusted at 11/8 and adjust the trigger as i mentioned to drop back alittle more so its not so advanced in neutral im thinking shes gonna run like a beauty. But we will find out this evening and ill update if my adjustments will fix all issues. I pray and cross my fingers they work.
 

Nordin

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When tuning the engine start with setting the air/fuel mix screw and do this after the engine has warmed up.

Then you set the throttle rod from timingtower to the cam so it open up the butterflies to horisontal at WOT.
At last you set the idle screw and the engine should idle about 750-800 rpm in gear and in water.
 

SkiDad

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I will up date later this evening ob its running status. I think with carbs adjusted at 11/8 and adjust the trigger as i mentioned to drop back alittle more so its not so advanced in neutral im thinking shes gonna run like a beauty. But we will find out this evening and ill update if my adjustments will fix all issues. I pray and cross my fingers they work.


any luck ?
 

waterboy84

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Sorry for responding late. Been alittle busy and had to celibrate my wife and i annivarswy. Anyhow i did take boat out for a test run and there wasnt a improvement. However once the boat is in gear it runs great. Nice and smooth and takes off and planes out quick. Its just this high idle isnt right. Something is not proper and i aint gonna run my boat until i can get this issue figured out becuz once i put my boat into neutral it raises up to 1500-1600 tpms and it doesnt drop back down and when i put it in gear with the rpm being up high like that it really kicks that lower unit in gear hard and i dont like that and im deffenently not trying to have to replace a lower unit.
I knew had this issue before so i know this high rpm in neutral should not be doing this.

I have read a few things on the high rpm issue abd some people say they rebuilt the fuel diaphram and some say they rebuild the carbs and the high rpm went away so i think imma take that option and do that.
But i pulled off the fuel diaphram and noticed the little gasket/seal thats on the back side of the fuel diaphram that sits between motor block and fuel diaphram was bad. It was broken and was brital. So imma go with just a fuel diaphram rebuild first.
Do you think with that bad gasket/seal behind the fuel diaphram being no good could be a issue. My theroy is its leaking air or air is getting in.
 

SkiDad

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i doubt it, it would have been leaking fuel if that was the case. one thing to note, since you lowered your air mixture from 1-1/2 turns to 1 turn out this will raise you idle. If you didn't lower your idle after this change this could account for what you are seeing. I think you will find a happy medium by lowering the idle a 1/4 turn or something like that. You really only need 700 rpm in gear as long as your boat can do it without stalling.

or like Nordin said split the different and use 1-1/4 out for air mixture. The 1 turn out in the manual was only a start point and you can fine turn it.
 

waterboy84

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I was kind of thinking that myself as far as the air mixture being 11/2 turns out and now having it at 1 turn out. Im not liking having it at 1 turn out. I dont feel comfortable with that.
I feel like thats alittle to lean.
Im defenently gonna go to the 11/4 area of air mixture.
I just just a question. You mention that with air mixture being at 11/2 turns out. And putting it at 1 turn will raise idle. I understand that.
But i put my boat in the water with air mixture being set at 1 turn out. I then put my boat in gear at idle so it has the load and set idle stop screw so that rpms were between 700-850.
Now when i first start the boat. It will idle perfectly around 1000-1100 rpms and when put into gear it will drop around 700-800 rpms. But once i give the boat throttle and run it. From that point everytime it goes in neutral there goes rpms. Up to 1500-1600.
 
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