Force 120HP 1996 broken reeds and carb question

Kick

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I have a Force 120 hp from 1996 and what are the best reeds i can use. I read about boyessen and Chris Carsen Marine reeds.
Have anybody experions with new reeds?
I have also a new carbkit for my TC 119a and TC 120a carbs. I will replace the float needle but it likes the old one set under pressure see pictures
Thanks for your help.
 

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Kick

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I just make a compression test, without the reedplates and with a cold engine.

Cyl 1; 140

Cyl 2; 158

Cyl 3; 155

Cyl 4; 160

12.5% between Cylinder 1 and 4.
Is that a problem?
 
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Frank Acampora

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Boyeson reeds are polymers and Carson reeds are fiberglass. From what I have heard, they do give a little better low speed response but don't expect performance miracles. The main advantage is that if you do break one of these reeds, they pass through the engine without doing damage. They do not last as long as stock reeds and I believe the manufacturers claim you will need periodic replacement. I never bought stock reeds new but I'll bet the cost of the aftermarket reeds is about comparable. I think Boyeson reeds for that engine cost around 150 a set.

Your compression numbers are good--nothing to worry about on the slightly low one.

When you install the carbs be certain to set the low speed needles to 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Too lean will cause engine damage.
 
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blackd

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What I did was buy and install the older square reeds and reed block. I think Frank will attest these reeds almost never break.
 

Kick

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Frank and blackd, Thanks for your answers.
Blackd were did you buy them? And wat do you think of the carb the new needle have also a new sit wiht it and the old wan like from rvs and is install under pressure i think.
Thanks for the help and i come from de Netherlands if my english is not very well.
 

Frank Acampora

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The old seat is pressed in and to remove it you must use a lag screw of the appropriate size. Screw it into the seat and use something to pull out the seat. However, if you use a good light and examine the old seat, if it is in good condition it need not be replaced. The seat is solid brass and usually does not wear much. The needle has a rubber tip and is much more likely to wear or take a set or be grooved.

Especially since you are in Europe, parts will be very expensive. I have also heard that Mercury does not sell parts outside the USA. From the photos, your reeds are in very poor condition. For reeds, best bet would be first to look on ebay. If you have access to a lot of junk engines there in the Netherlands You might be better to buy a whole junk engine and salvage parts. Use what you need, save what you want, and sell the rest. Parts for engines sell for more than a whole engine does.

I know there are a lot of Force owners in the UK. and that is not too far from you so craigslist (if available there) or the equivalent site might be another way to search.
 
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Kick

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Frank, thanks for your answer. First i look how the seat is. i have buy reeds on ebay so that is no problem.
I have only look for the gaskets for de reedplate.

Thanks again!
 

Frank Acampora

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Don't go crazy looking for the gaskets. Make them yourself. They are not too complex and It only takes a scissors and child's hole punch. Buy some 1/32 inch thick--gasket paper from your local auto parts store-(-not sure how many MM that is). Trace the old gasket and cut out It takes about 10 minutes per gasket. There are two different gaskets--one for the manifold and reed plate and one separating the reed plate from the engine block so you would need to make four gaskets. The outside (perimeter) of all gaskets is the same. They only differ slightly on the inside portion.
 
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Kick

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Well i have just take off that gaskets and there no broken and been nice to see. i think a can use them again. i have gasket paper her so if its nessesary i make them.
Hole punch do i have also.
I let the original seat from the carb in and use the new inlet needle. i think thats works fine.

Thanks again!
 

Frank Acampora

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By the way, welcome to iboats forums. I have no problems with your English. I just hope I can do as well if it were necessary for me to speak Dutch ( is that what the language is called?)

My problem is with English speaking people who can not or will not use proper spelling and grammar. They went to school to study the language and still butcher it.
 

Kick

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Haha well my son is better with english. I have my boat now 3 years and found i long time ago this form and read a lot here.
Its great to see how people help each other. there are now 886 pages here and i read 437 of them.
I like to learn a lot over this engine. So i think i do my best.
By the way my carbon reeds are sent to my.

Thanks (NL: Dank u wel)
 

Kick

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Blackd, me to, i get them between 8 and 15 september. My carbs are clien now so i just wait on them.
Did you take the carbon reeds? There work fine?
 

Kick

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I also will installate a cow switch for the trim?tilt on the engine. Thats would by easier.
 

blackd

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Kick, what I got off Ebay was the older square Force reeds assembly. Newer reeds are 6 per cage and the older are 8 per cage, so you need to replace the entire assemblies. Remember, these are Mercury reeds, so there are many more options than just Force out there.
 

Kick

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I have order the carbon fiber reeds by magemarine, so i hope there do the job good.
 

Kick

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No Title

Here a update.
This weekend i did make 2 new gaskets and install my carbonfiber reeds and the rebuild carbs.
I did start the engine in a big tube and runs great 700 a 750 rpm in forward gear. At this rpm its looks stronger now with the new reeds.
When the weather is oke i try it on de rivier and let you now.
Also i install my cowl switch for the trim/tilt and thats works great to.

So thanks again for the advice, this is a great forum.
 

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Kick

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last weekend the wetter was nice and i try my boat on the river. The idle was perfect and the engine runs great. There was more power and the rpm was also 800 higher then before i replace the reeds. Before it was 5200 rpm and now 6000. So i think its better not going WOT.
When i buy the boat it has a 17 pitch solas RVS and i had it replace with the same size. maybay a 19 pitch would be better now.
The boat goes realy fast in plane now.
 

blackd

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Good for you! Time and patience and asking questions is the formula for success. :)
 
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