1986 125hp force outboard (white model) not getting spark on top 2 cylinders

davids_1718

Cadet
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
29
Hello to all. It took me 3 days going through this forum to find some answers but my luck cant find anything. I just got a 1986 bayliner capri cuddy with a 1986 125hp force outboard (white model). At first with the muffs and a little fresh gas mixed right motor started after playing with choke and some starting fluid. When hot the engine will fire up but when cold starting it needs to be manipulated to start.

After opening the cowl noticed to wires were shot. 1st being green orange wire from flywheel to rectifier. Cleaned the end up put a spade and reconnected it. Second wire is the white wire (where magneto wire suppose to go was cut short and the purple wire tachometer is in magnets place). Is this a major issue. Tried cranking it both ways with each wire and supposedly had issues when the white was reconnected. I'm not good with multi meters so had a friend check it out but I don't think he really new much about mange to engines.

Long story short I ended up thinking I had a bad power pack so I found someone on Craigslist (former boat mechanic that now free lances and he guaranteed me all 4 coils and 2 power packs were in working condition when they were pulled off). Problem was they were the blue packs and he assured me the only difference was the pigtails. All the wires were the same color however set up differently coming out of the pack. So after soldering and installing blue power pack still no change.

Anyone out can help me figure this out while I wait for a boat mechanic to be available. I really wanted to get out on the water this weekend. Even took the week off thinking this was something I can handle.
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,817
I am not aware of green orange wire going to the rectifier, instead it should be the green yellow or plain yellow which are the charging wires from the stator and connects to the AC input of the rectifier. The white wire that I am aware of is the kill wire for the CDM's and it connects directly to the stop terminal of the ignition switch. This wire should never be grounded (until the ignition sw is placed in the stop position thus shunting the CDM's to ground hence killing the engine). The purple tach wire should be connected directly to one of the green/yellow wires from the stator. This is where the tach gets its signal input.

As for starting procedures, make sure you follow standard SOP.
1. Depress the priming bulb until firm
2. Place the throttle control in fast idle (depress a center button or pull out the handle towards you and push forward),
3. Push in the ignition sw to engage the choke system
4. While pushing place the ignition sw in start position and hold it there until the engine starts or at least "coughs" but not more than 10 seconds.
5. If engine starts, let it warm up in fast idle for about 20~30 secs and you should be good to go
6. If engine DID NOT start but "coughed", place ignition switch back in off position. Then re-start without depressing or engaging the choke system and the engine should start. If it still would not start, try choking it again . . . but do not choke more than two times as it will flood the carbs.

If you still have problems starting or with some loose wires, post again with pics to expedite troubleshooting.
 

davids_1718

Cadet
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
29
Hey sorry for the late response but had to spend 5 hours breaking off the flywheel cause it was wedged into the shaft due to a sheared key. Was trying to pull off the flywheel to inspect the trigger and stator but had no luck. Used a large 3 jaw puller and at first try the rim of the flywheel broke off. So diagnosis won't proceed till the replacement flywheel shoes up.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Use a harmonic balancer puller and three 1/4 X 20 screws into the three holes on top of the flywheel. If really stubborn try heat from a propane torce in the center of the flywheel. If the bolts pull out and strip the flywheel, re-tap to 5/16 X 18. When re-installing the flywheel, torque the nut to 95 foot pounds otherwise you will keep shearing keys.

Each power pak has a white kill wire which attaches to the white engine terminal on the strip board. From there an single white wire in the cable goes forward to the "M" terminal on the ignition switch. Thus, three white wires are connected to the engine terminal strip. Blue attaches to the other "M" terminal and goes forward to the blue terminal on the board. It is then jumped to ground with a jumper strap.

Operation is this: The ignition is self energizing and with either the white or blue disconnected it will start and run. The two "M" terminals on the ignition switch are in continuity only when the switch is off. When the switch is off the white wires from each power pak are shorted to ground through the blue, shorting the capacitors to ground. Thus, no spark is generated from any coil. You do not want to touch these wires as the capacitors are charged to about 240 Volts.
 

Glastron_V210

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
324
This is from another thread where I made a post. A lot of the same info will be good for you to read.

Loss of two cylinders can be a stator issue, or a 'power pack' issue, but is more likely the stator.

The replacement unit stator and/or power pack from CDI Electronics can most economically be found on EBAY the last time I checked.

Inspecting the stator and trigger probably won't help. My stator looked perfect but was open circuit on one coil. electrical testing is the only way to go. Use both ohm and DVA tests to confirm an issue, or no issue with the stator.

My guess from what you have described is that the white wire is shorted out on you upper coil pack. make sure it is not shorted, then switch the stator output to the coil packs. This will change the stator supply to the other power pack. If the upper cylinders fire and the lowers don't you know its the stator not the power pack. If the lower cylinders still fire and uppers dont', you likely have a power pack failure. If neither fire, you may have both a stator and power pack failure.

Maybe you even have 2 failures on the upper cylinder coils. It's worth checking.

I like to pull the plugs and wire them to ground, and watch them as a helper starts the engine...that way you can see really easily what is going on, and it's easy on the starter too.

The connectors make it easy to mix and match and isolate the problem.

Chay

__________________________________________________ ____________


Hey there. Here is a link to lots of schematics for ignition systems:

http://www.maxrules.com/fixforcewiring.html

Here is one for your ig system, which is the same as mine, a prestolite cdi distriutorless 4 cyl:

http://www.maxrules.com/graphics/for...thru91A_CD.jpg

Hope it helps you to adapt it.

I built a DVA for my multimeter...it's easy if you have any soldering/electronics experience. Find info here:

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...oltage-adapter


Troubleshooting guide here: (I had to break up the address for some reason...just eliminate the spaces)

http://www. jm sonl ine.net/articles/cdi-ignition-trouble-shooting-guide-for-chrysler-force.htm

Perhaps this website has a block on that website. Anyway, the info is good, I used it to determine a loose connection.

In particular, I'd start with the CDI stator pairs. As you will note on the schematic, the battery charge stator winding is seperate from the two CDI ignition power supply windings. As such, measuring the green wires for voltage will not yeild usefull information.


Please start with the DVA voltage readings (Or use a 'scope if you have one) of the stator power supply windings.


Chay


Last edited by Glastron_V210; June 2nd, 2015, 02:25 PM.
 
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