85HP Trigger

DudeAbides

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Jun 20, 2015
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I am going through my ignition system because I am convinced that I have a spark issue.

I tested resistance and output of my charging coils and they were good.

Trigger resistance test was 56, Book says 48-52

bigger issue is I am not picking up anything from the output test. Nada

So I pulled the flywheel and this is what the trigger looked like.

I am wondering if this is common. It seems that in 2 places the coating is gone from the magnets.

Is this trigger toast? and would it lead to a zero output reading? the motor runs, just rough and smokey still
 

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DudeAbides

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Using a higher quality meter wit greater sensitivity I am getting .120 volts across all 3 pairs of trigger wires. When I should be at .5+

The output of my modules are totally out of whack but I don't know that I can make any sense of them without sending the proper trigger signal there first.
 

Jiggz

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The only proper way to read the trigger output of 0.50+ is with a DVA. The voltage is basically a spike that's so fast a regular voltmeter cannot read it accurately. Now if the 0.120 volt you read is from a DVA then check the magnets to make sure they are still intact. Are you now using 50:1 fuel-oil ratio mix? Hence the heavy smokes?
 

DudeAbides

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Thanks Jiggz.

Fuel is fresh and 50:1

I am not sure that it is a DVA. It's a Klien cl2000

It did pick up the charging coils output.

Regarding the magnets. None are loose but 2 have had the coating stripped away like the one in the pic. I am not sure if this is a problem or not.
 

Jiggz

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The charging coils output is continuous sinusoidal wave AC hence a regular voltmeter will be able to read it as long as you convert peak voltage to RMS. However, it is totally different with a trigger voltage output which is a fast non-continuous and basically a spike. There are ways to DIY a DVA which you can connect in series with a regular DVM to read spike voltages like the trigger output.
 

DudeAbides

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Got it.

I saw a DVA adapter online for $80. I guess I will just buy it.

Do you have any input on coating being stripped off of the magnets like the pic I posted?
 

jerryjerry05

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HOW?? Did it get rubbed off?
Pics of the inside of the flywheel?
Unless it's grounding on every revolution there should be no problem with the coating.
85hp but what year?
The older 85's had plug in connectors.
The new had screw down connectors.
The old were crap and famous for not working right.
The new were better but the wires would break under the shrink wrap and make the motor miss(my motor did this).
It would even pass a tug test.
I replaced all the connectors with new on the stator too and the problem went away.
 

DudeAbides

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I have no idea how it got rubbed off. The boat is new to me. Heat? I presume? It seems to have only peeled up right at the magnet. not above or below.

I will post more pics as soon as I can get back to the boat.

Its a 1989 with the terminal block connections

no wires were broken under the shrink wrap at the base of the trigger.

the ends of the wires that connect to the terminal block look good but I have not peeled back the shrink wrap

I will post as many picks as I can while I wait for my DVA
 

DudeAbides

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The only other thing that I would add is that when I just place the trigger on the flywheel (off the motor) the 2 magnets with no coating have a strong attraction and will require a small amount of force to remove from the flywheel.

the other 4 with the coating have much less attraction. they do not stick to the flywheel
 

DudeAbides

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Here's my flywheel. I thought it looked pretty good
 

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DudeAbides

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Here is my trigger. Still not sure what to make of this
 

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DudeAbides

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Here are my wires going into the trigger from both sides. They look good.

Do you think I should peel back the wires on the block?
 

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Jiggz

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The trigger unit seems to be looking OK. You need to realize there are three cylinders on your motor and hence with the trigger unit there should be three equally spaced coils embedded in each of those slots in the perimeter. There maybe some extra slots but they shouldn't have any coils embedded in them. The slots is the one that enables the coil to receive magnetic field to generate the trigger signals from the coils which in your case should be three coils that are equally spaced out. The other extra slots are basically for 4 and 5 cylinder motors.
 

jerryjerry05

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You do a compression test?
The connectors, pull on the trigger wires and see if it comes out of the shrink wrap.
I did this on mine and it was really tight and still broken.
They used the same trigger base for the 3/4/5 cyl. Just added more wires.
 

DudeAbides

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Thanks Guys.

Compression is 115 on all 3 cylinders.

I should get my DVA today so I can get some accurate output numbers from the trigger and modules.

I did lightly tug on the connections, they seemed good.

Thanks for sharing the experience with your motors connection.

If problems persist, I guess I could just change out the connections. It's easy and cheap enough.
 

DudeAbides

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So I got my DVA. I tested my trigger wires at cranking speed. .6-.7 v across all pairs
charging coils " " 200v+ across both
modules CDI " " nothing 0 I could not get a reading ( if i go straight to the multimeter it registers voltage that is all over the place from 20v to neg 50 but just keeps bouncing totally erratic)

this is on both modules.

if the modules are toast , I am not really surprised. What seems really weird is that the motor runs (not well, but it runs) its definitely getting spark, so I am not sure why i am picking up zero v through my DVA.

And on both modules? most troubleshooting tips I have seen talk about isolating the bad module. Could both go bad?

I would love to just order 2 new modules and be done with it, but if its something else i would rather not waste the $500.
 
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Jiggz

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It seems the trigger and the stator's power coils peak voltage outputs are reading correctly. The CD modules output should be read between the wire output (going to the ignition coils) and to ground and it should be around 150+ peak. If you cannot read output voltage between output wire and ground, try reading between output wires from each CDM. Lastly, the final output is all that matters, the ignition coil spark. Make sure you test under the shade and avoid bright light to verify the sparks. Additionally, try the plug wire pull method while listening in changes to engine tone to at least isolate any suspicious ignition coils, CDM's, etc.
 

jerryjerry05

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If you buy new or used your probably wasting your $$$$
Not often "both" go bad.
Look at the key and slot that holds the flywheel.
The edges need to be sharp and even.
Take a magic marker and color the inside of the trigger.
95# torque on the nut.
Run it and then remove the flywheel.
See if it's been rubbed off.

A spark tester will also tell if you have a weak coil.
Set at 3/8 and then extend it to 7/16 then out and see how far you can make it jump.
 

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DudeAbides

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Thanks guys I will be sure to go through these steps next time I am at the yard.


I will order a spark test like the one jerry posted. I understand that seeing how far the spark will jump is important.

I have a lite up spark tester, that is less than impressive. It has always shown spark,but it was kind of muddy, at cranking speed,( like a flourecent light flickering when it comes on)

However I think I may have found something interesting.

So after being baffled at how the modules show no voltage through the DVA but the motor runs, I was suspecting the ground and/or the kill wires.

what I did was disconnect all the wires that head up to the controls at the helm, there was also another parallel circuit that headed up to the control area, I think it powered a cigarette lighter and radio, disconnected that also.

I didn't have much time left to work but I did hook up my crumby spark tester, and cranked over the engine, all of the sudden there was a clean bright light on all cylinders. No flickering.

So I would like to do the remainder of my trouble shooting with these wires disconnected.

My question is Does the motor need any sort of feedback from the wires that head up to the controls? Or can they all be bypassed for troubleshooting? I would just use alligator clips for starting and killing the engine when needed

Thanks again for all the help and guidance
 
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DudeAbides

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After looking at some old pics. I can see that the parallel circuit was actually running all the control are stuff (tach speedo horn lights radio etc.)

The red and black in the harness was cut and replaced with new lines right to the battery.

Don't think that would be a problem in itself. But I am thinking maybe the previous owner was trying to hunt something down that they never really found.

But there shouldn't be any reason I can't trouble shoot with all those wires disconnected. It sure would be nice to eliminate that wiring for the time being. Then if I can get it running nicely I can begin to add each wire back in to see where the problem is
 
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