Electrical questions

[afaust]

Hi all,

I finally got my motor working the way I want it to, and now I'm starting to look at the electrical wiring. Just to mention to Silvertip, that in the sticky on boat wiring, all the images are gone, which means that the sticky is just about useless... I wanted to look it up to make sure I do things right.
In looking at my wiring, I found a couple of "loose ends" and I'm wondering what they could be for. 1 is off the motor, and the other off the throttle. Ive also got a bunch of wiring that "seemed" to be the lights and a non-existant horn, but I'm wondering what the fuse might be for (on what seems to be the stern lighting wire to the battery, since i didnt think it was necessary. I've linked to my bucket that has the pics. The description;

Behind 2 position switch (figure red/green and stern) lighting
Battery positive pole
Battery neg pole (shows fuse)
Unknown throttle connector
Unknown motor connector (45 hp mariner)
Unknown broken ground, seems to be associated with lighting or horn wire (needed?) even though there is a ground wire to the battery.
Two position switch and likely horn switch
Wiring to bow light
Steering rear view

 

[NicoPags]

By chance do you own the manual. Throttle connection could be an emergency kill switch not sure. while the other might be the electric shift? Add a better ground than the one in the pic.

 

[afaust]

No, I'm afraid I don't have the manual.....as for the ground, I know that the battery is grounded on the motor, but I found that ground on a wire, but don't know where the rest of that bolt is even.....or where the other end was hooked up.

 

[gm280]

WOW I can see so many wiring problems just from the supplied pictures. I know you don't really want to hear this, but I would start with one contact and install the proper connector ends instead of twisted and/or crimped wire connectors. Those crimp on wire connection plastic parts are worthless. So start and strip back the wires ends until you get good clean shiny copper and then crimp on the appropriate type wire end connector for each wire. Remove all those blue plastic crimp connections and use the appropriate connections for joining two wires together. I can see me spending a day reworking your entire electrical system so that I could depend on it when out boating. But that is just my opinion...

 

[NicoPags]

I will second GM280. But ill say start over. Don't shotgun and rip it out but property replace it all starting with proper contacts. The crimo splice connectors are usually what you get in trailer kits and I don't think I would ever use them unless emergency. Proper wiring with but splices and heat shrink is what you need. You can very well get a kit for min $15 that has proper wiring for a professional install. The loose ends from Throttle the motor could also be an old ground for the throttle. You will be very please to do the wiring properly. I will post a picture of the setup I just finished bulding for $80. Final verdict I say re run it all and properly.

 

[afaust]

I agree with you about the re doing of the wiring, which is why I'm asking the questions. I need help.... Ie to start off with, what are the proper connections you are talking about (pics/links please)? And gm, I do want to hear all about it. I want to know about busses to combine wires (where do I put them?). How I can keep the one battery for the motor and maybe another for the accessories.... And start with the one battery and evolve to the 2 batteries. How I can have an "open" possibility to add a fish finder etc..... Start with getting the lights and current stuff up to snuff, the rest to follow.

 

[gm280]

I agree with you about the re doing of the wiring, which is why I'm asking the questions. I need help.... Ie to start off with, what are the proper connections you are talking about (pics/links please)? And gm, I do want to hear all about it. I want to know about busses to combine wires (where do I put them?). How I can keep the one battery for the motor and maybe another for the accessories.... And start with the one battery and evolve to the 2 batteries. How I can have an "open" possibility to add a fish finder etc..... Start with getting the lights and current stuff up to snuff, the rest to follow.

Okay, I have to say I like your enthusiasm for sure. So lets walk through this a little. First off, I have zero idea how your boat is presently wired. So with that stated, lets go over a typical setup. Usually how most boats are wires is, they take wires (usually about 10gauge) from the battery and run both a positive and ground wires to the helm. The positive wire has a fuse or circuit break at the battery to protect for shorts to the helm. That is very important to understand. At the helm (control area of your choice) you install a positive AND negative buss block. What that is a basically a block where all the connectors are strapped together to allow different circuits to branch out from. Then each individual circuit from that buss block goes through either a fuse or circuit breaker sized according to the amount of amps that circuit will need. Hence, bilge pump, 5 amp fuse. So you wire off the positive buss block thorough a fuse (or breaker, your choice) and then maybe even a switch if you want to control that circuit. From that switch you run a wire to the pump. And the ground wire at the pump goes back to the negative buss block at the helm again. That completes one circuit in your boat. AS for what type connector you use is totally depended on the buss block type connectors. For instance, if you buss block uses screws for the connections, then you use crimp on wire connectors the size of the screw diameter. If the screw is a number 8 screw then you use number eight holed connectors for that ends of the wire. But you also need to know the gauge of the wire to buy the proper connector. If you are using 16 gauge wire to the pump (a typical gauge used in a lot of boats) then you buy connectors for 16 gauge wire. On the switch, they usually use push on wire connections (spade connector). So you again buy the proper gauge wire spade type connectors for that switch. At the pump itself, you can either lap solder the joint or use standard bullet type wire connectors. But again you buy the proper wire gauge bullet connectors as well. AS you can see it really isn't that difficult to wire up most anything knowing the gauge wire and the proper type connector needed. And that is exactly how you do every other circuit the branches off the buss block... I hope that the helps you a little. Post more questions if you want... :thumb:

A spade connector

Typical crimp connector


Typical bullet connector

 

[afaust]

Gm,

Perfect..... I wanted to know the connectors since in different electric forums et there are different views, crimp vs solder vs splice etc..... As for the boat, it is a 14 foot fiberglass that is real simple, single battery, 45 hp mariner, front and back light (not hooked up at the moment), has a two position pull switch (that I assume was the lights) , a push button, which seemed to be a horn (no longer there), a throttle (don't know how it's hooked up to the battery). And that is it. I want to add the fish finder, don't think I need the bilge right now, but I want it to be upgradable.... So thx for the info to date.... I want to evolve to the new system without screwing up the motor or throttle, since I finally got the motor working the way I like and I want to get out on the water soon.

 

[afaust]

One more question. I have lots of 12 gauge wire hanging around. Can I use that to connect to the lights, even though the mall strip of wire that comes with it is 10 gauge? Can I use it for other accessories such as sonar connection or otherwise? I can't seem to find 10 gauge anywhere for the life of me.

 

[NYBo]

You don't need 10 gauge or even 12 gauge for accessory wiring. That's what's needed for the main feed to the fuse panel (10 gauge). As stated above, 16 gauge is fine for lights, fish-finders, bilge pumps, etc. You can use 12 gauge for the branch circuits but you may have trouble snaking it around because of how stiff it is.

 

[afaust]

Thank you for the info on the gauge..... Now if I can only get my motor to stop bogging down.....

 

[Silvertip]

The three pin connector at the control box is the connection for a tachometer. I would disagree with others. Wiring on the boat is in such horrible condition I'd strip it and begin fresh, especially since there is no fuse panel and you are already thinking about adding other accessories. Without a fuse panel you just create more wiring and in-line fuse holders that are always a pain over time.

 

[afaust]

Thank you for writing Silvertip. I figured that that would probably be the way I have to go.... Only thing is, I have little understanding of electrical wiring except for the fact that there is a current wire and a ground wire and they both have to be hooked up.... When you add more stuff, it gets even more interesting. Just looking as the rear images of gang switches with fuses for an example, I wouldn't know where to hook up what, which is why I was hoping to see your pictures, but after reading your post on the subject, I can understand your position, and I can't say I blame you...

Allan

 

[afaust]

Hi all,

Fast forward a year.... and I didnt do anything with the wiring, since not knowing whether my motor would be working, I did not want to spend any time on work that would not be used....
Now the motor is working after a dual carb rebuild and trigger switch replacement.... it was bogging down due to flooding and leaky carbs.

That being said, back to the electrical. I did what everyone suggested.... ripped everything out, except the motor wiring.
What I want to do, is simple..... wire in my nav and rear 360 white lights.
So to start off with, i have a nav light with (red/black wires) and a white 360 on a pole with a base that has (grey/black wires) coming out of it, and a Off-on-on pull switch at the helm.
Looking through electrical images, the only schematic that seems to make sense is the following;

From bat + run an inline fuse, then a red wire to the helm batt + blade on the switch. Run the red nav light wire to the load 1 on the switch. Run the grey wire from the rear 360 to the load 2 on the pull switch. run the black wire from the nav light back to the black 360 wire and combine them and send combined wires to batt - .

Now the questions I have are the following;

1. Is this correct?
2. What size wire should I run from the battery to the lights.
3. Considering wire size etc, approx 10 ft to helm from back, 4 ft to front, what size fuse would I use.
4. I'll decide at a much later time if I upgrade to a complete switchboard... I just want to get the lights working.

I thank you in advance for any help anyone can offer, and thanx for the help already offered.

Allan

 

[NicoPags]

welcome back Allan

I know what wire to use, but I am going to wait until next year to tell you.


Just kidding. Always better to start a new thread though, anything older than 3 months (as the forum requests via the rules)

Anywho, NYBo and gm280 touched up on this saying 16 gauge is fine for lights, fish-finders, bilge pumps, etc. For lights can probably use a 10a

 

[bruceb58]

Its OK if the OP restarts his thread.

 

[NicoPags]

Oh the learning curve lol

 

[Grandad]

I agree with Nico. Although the current draw is lower than what a #16 wire can carry, smaller wire is more prone to mechanical damage. And although a 10 amp fuse is much larger than the current draw, it's about right for #16 and gives you a little safety margin for a critical circuit such as nav lights. - Grandad

 

[afaust]

Thx Nico, Bruce, Grandad, both for the answers and for the forum guidelines. I figured by continuing on with the original thread (topic hadn't changed) that I wouldn't have to rehash the past. I just wanted to confirm the info on the gauge and fuse, to ensure that both what I read here, and online was valid. Forgot a couple of questions though, for the rear light that has a base with grey and black for wires, is there a difference which I use, or does the black truly mean black i.e. + or -? Also, with the fuse holder using "thicker" (I think 10ga) wiring, will that change anything, or can I find a fuse holder with a smaller gauge wire?

 

[NicoPags]

Thx Nico, Bruce, Grandad, both for the answers and for the forum guidelines. I figured by continuing on with the original thread (topic hadn't changed) that I wouldn't have to rehash the past. I just wanted to confirm the info on the gauge and fuse, to ensure that both what I read here, and online was valid. Forgot a couple of questions though, for the rear light that has a base with grey and black for wires, is there a difference which I use, or does the black truly mean black i.e. + or -? Also, with the fuse holder using "thicker" (I think 10ga) wiring, will that change anything, or can I find a fuse holder with a smaller gauge wire?

you were right to continue, its easier for you when still figuring out the same issue/problem. I apologize for calling it out, I was wrong.

For the rear base, the black and grey, reminds me of the tsunami bilge that had brown and black wires. I used black as ground to keep in line with the general wiring scheme of the boat, I also snipped the brown and butt connected red up to the bow where my fuse block is. Sure I know which is which, but I'm convinced it will make it easier to whomever I sell the boat too in the future. So you wont have an issue sticking to your theory as black as -

You can use your 10ga fuse holder, it is overkill, but useable. Most butt connectors are for a gauge "within" a set range. Chances are if you bought butt connectors for your 12awg, than the butt connector will accept 10-12awg. Make a good solid crimp and heat shrink over top of it.

good luck