fuse block issues

[seanymph85]

I had noticed that the fuse block I have had all 20 amp fuses in it. I do not know what all of the fuse capacity should be for all items on the boat yet but know several items only call for 1A, 3A and a 5 amp fuse which is what I believe was called for on the basic light circuit which only has a couple of bench seat lights and a bow and stern light.

In any case when I was trying to track down which fuse was for the aerator for example I noticed that two different round buss fuses needed to be in for the aerator to operate. I thought that was strange and assume, which I know you shouldn't sometimes do that there is something very wrong with how the fuse block is wired or how the various items such as aerator, trolling motor, fish finder, lights etc. are wired to the fuse block. I could have all fuses out but these two fuses for example and if either fuse is pulled the aerator for example would not run. The aerator itself in this case at least only has two wires, brown and black. However the wires on the aerator switch do not have a brown wire. I am wondering if I need a new wiring harness so the wire colors from each item going to the fuse block are as they should be.

Any ideas on where to begin on the issue of diagnosing what is wrong and where with the wiring would be appreciated. I am fairly handy with basic electrical needs but am not as familiar on how 12 VDC fuse blocks, batteries and connecting "appliances" should be hooked up properly. If the fuse block should be replaced, how do I know how many items/fuse slots or what capacity I should get?

 

[ffej1010]

Is one fuse the power in from the battery to the fuse block, and the other fuse goes out to the aerator?

 

[hungupthespikes]

Most of the time a larger electric motor (aerator) needs a fuse just for the motor due to the amperage for start up.
Then a second fuse for power to the control circuit/s. The control circuit will bring in a relay for the motor.
Or if the motor does blow the fuse then just the aerator is effective and not the control circuit's power or anything that may share that fuse.
Clear as mud???
Look for a relay/circuit board along the power wires from the aerator. You should find that's where the color wires your confused about will meet.

 

[MH Hawker]

Their is nothing wrong with using all 20 amp fuses if the wire gage is of the correct size. Fuses are to protect the wiring not the device.

 

[seanymph85]

It does not appear to me that either fuse is the power in from the battery. The battery wires are connected to top right and bottom right of the fuse block. The aerator pump is a small Attwood 500 gph. Tsunami pump that appears to only require a 3A fuse.

There are in some cases mismatched wire gauges from prior owners being used in this boat. In one place I found 14 gauge solid copper home wires being used and replaced with appropriate gauge tinned wire.

I understand about the potential for the two fuse use being described above, however their is no control board or other relays or circuit breakers etc. installed.

I presently have need of power to the 25 hp. outboard motor, an older Minkota trolling motor, bow/stern/seat courtesy lights, aerator and fish finder. That's about it.

 

[hungupthespikes]

Their is nothing wrong with using all 20 amp fuses if the wire gage is of the correct size. Fuses are to protect the wiring not the device.

Fuses are to protect the CIRCUIT not just the wire.
Look at your car's fuse box, lots of different size fuses, some are very low amperage to protect the device and the chance of the device overheating causing a fire.
A dedicated circuit will be fused for the device/s, then the wire will be sized to meet or exceed that electric draw,
A non dedicated circuit, like a power point, will be fused for not just the wire, but also how much amperage your system can spare before it starts to brown out essential systems or pull more power than the charging system can give without running down the battery. That's why you see a 10 amp fuse in a power point circuit that could carry 20 amps without circuit failure.

 

[hungupthespikes]

The PO fused both sides of the battery??????!!!
Yep, you need to go thru this electric system from head to toe, it's not right.
The negative side should not be fused in any way.

Sorry I got to go.
huts

 

[seanymph85]

I have now found the same issue with two other fuses on the lights as on the aerator pump. The strange thing to me is that neither of these two fuses are the one that the one wire from the light switch goes to. Also I see that there is a short jumper from the power feed side of the fuse block at the top right of the block going to the second fuse down from the top. Which is one of the two fuses as mentioned in the above post regarding the aerator pump.

I would like to just be able to pull that mess of wires going from the left side of the fuse block and through the "cross member" and check for issues and rewire back to fuse block. The cross member is riveted on the bottom and bolted on the top. So I am wondering if someone at some point in time took it loose at the top to feed the trolling motor, aerator wires and stern light through the cross member. Not sure if I dare take the bolts out of the top of the cross member which is hollow in center if it will loosen top of it enough to get the wires out.

I am going to look for rewire diagrams online and see if it will help clarify how the different electrical items are to be hooked up to the fuse block. The fish finder has a fuse inline and is hooked directly to the battery at the present time.

P.S. "Huts", I was working on this post before you made your last post. I will look for fuse block wiring diagrams online. I was considering starting fresh with a new block that can be labeled but may need someone to help make certain the one I get is correct for this type of thing. 12VDC etc.

 

[seanymph85]

I have taken the existing fuse block loose and their is definitely no separate ground bar strip. I can't hardly believe someone wired it that way. Would something like the following serve the purpose for the fuse block? There is a metal bolt on weather cover for this fuse block, but perhaps a unit with a plastic cover would be better. Based on the current unit if wired correctly I believe an 8 gang block should work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARINE-BOAT..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item43cd60ad74&vxp=mtr

If anyone has other affordable fuse block ideas such as one with a sealed cover let me know.

Thanks in advance for any input on this!

 

[64osby]

The PO fused both sides of the battery??????!!!
Yep, you need to go thru this electric system from head to toe, it's not right.
The negative side should not be fused in any way.

Pull everything off the fuse block. Positive from battery to the RH side of block (as pictured). Jumpers from that to all fuses. Get a separate strip for negative or run all to the battery (-).

Test aerator and lights with jumpers (if needed) to fuse (positive) and ground (negative). Double check the aerator to make sure the pump is running in the correct direction if not reverse the wires. For lights it doesn't matter unless the are LED.

 

[NYBo]

I agree that ditching the current fuse block and starting over with a moden one is the way to go. You should never need to go above 10 amp fuses on individual circuits; anything that draws more juice should be kept on a totally separate circuit. Your branch circuit wiring is probaly no larger than 16 gauge (the recommended minimum size), which shouldn't have a 20 amp fuse. You can use fuses of the size recommended for each device, of course.

 

[smokeonthewater]

forget glass fuses... here's a fuse block and ground bus all in one... no jumpers needed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PER-061-ATO...nds-/230739638138?hash=item35b927777a&vxp=mtr

 

[seanymph85]

Yes, I am ditching that fuse block. It is more or less worthless! I have used an electrical tester and tested continuity to determine which wires are which. I now have all of them labeled as to the color at the source and which item it goes to. The light wires are labeled but the wires at the lights were only black so I assume on those only it doesn't make any difference which one is used for black and or for white or red. As soon as I get the new block it should be quick and easy to get everything hooked up correctly.

There are two wires for all "appliances" with the exception of two red wires for the trolling motor. One of them is a bit smaller gauge and is connected to the 12/24V toggle switch on the trolling motor. I know on this fuse block two of the red wires were connected to the same screw but I have no installation diagram or manual to be certain that is correct. I assume white and red wires go to hot feed and black to ground given the positive and negative on 12V.

SOTW I will check that fuse block out. on that one I didn't see so far if a cover came with it or not. Also if it doesn't have a cover I will need to measure and see if it will fit the metal cover I have that went over this fuse block. Not needing jumpers is helpful.

Did anyone happen to look at the link I provided from the post above?http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARINE-BOAT..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item43cd60ad74&vxp=mtr It has a separate ground strip too.

Thanks for all of the input, now I just need to find an appropriate fuse block. The two mentioned so far being possible options.

 

[smokeonthewater]

yes I looked at it... it's for glass fuses... that's why I said forget the glass fuses

as long as the fuse block is mounted out of the weather it does not need a cover.

 

[seanymph85]

I see my cover is going to fit the one you suggested as well for extra protection so I am going to go ahead and get that one. Thanks again for the tip! Can't wait to get it and get this all back together!

 

[smokeonthewater]

good deal... good luck

 

[Silvertip]

You keep mentioning that the trolling motor is associated with this fuse block. It should not be! Trollers draw a great deal of current and should be wired directly to a separate battery using an appropriate size breaker within 12 inches of the battery. Since your boat has a 12/24 switch the motor may or may not be dual voltage. If it is a 12/24 motor then you need two batteries just for the troller.

 

[seanymph85]

According to Minnkota this trolling motor, an old 99 model it is meant to have two batteries to make use of the 24V side of the switch that is right on the trolling motor. It says it is an 8 speed on the cover to the control head but I suspect it would only take advantage of additional speed or power with the second battery. They provided a diagram as to how to wire the two batteries together to be able to use the 24V side of the switch effectively. I think I could almost get a newer trolling motor for the price of two new deep cycle batteries.

Still someone appears to have miswired it somewhere as it goes in reverse when it is switched to forward and vice versa. I will need to see if I can find a complete wiring diagram to see if it will help shed some light on this problem. I switched a couple of wires on the switch and only blew fuses so I put them back as they were.

By the way, Kevin, SOTW I received that fuse block, installed it and everything works fine now! Thanks again for the tip!