Problem with 12 VDC charger on Honda BF9.9D

[tpbeebejr]

Below are the numbers for my 9.9 HP Honda outboard:

Product Identification Number: BABJ-1,608,742
Engine Serial Number: BEABJ-1,035,329
Model Number: BF9.9D/10D (SHA)
Model Year: 2009 I think

1.) I want to use the 12-volt DC charging feature of my Honda outboard. First of all, can someone please verify that my model should indeed have several amps (6 DC max amps) of 12-VDC available at the charging plug WITHOUT needing to buy any additional add-on components? The Owners Manual says that I should be able to charge a battery when the engine is running.

Symptoms: I cannot measure any DC voltage at the charging plug on the front of the motor when the motor is running at idle or at higher RPMs. The voltage is 0.0. Following the wires all the way back I have verified that the 20-A fuse in the +12-V red wire is OK, and that there is also no DC voltage between the upstream side of the fuse and ground. I have also followed the same wire (which becomes white upstream of the fuse housing) further upstream of that point to the point where it enters what I believe is a voltage regulator/rectifier. It enters a component along with 3 additional green wires, and it is permanently potted in, so there is no access to check any voltages there. The component's part number in the diagram is #5 (31750-ZW9-013).

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...K0 SHA/REGULATOR STARTER CABLE (1)/parts.html




2.) Can someone please give me some ideas for how to troubleshoot this problem further? Is the problem likely to be part #5, or is it likely to be something else? The motor runs fine and starts every time on the first or second pull.

3.) When I check the online parts diagrams, there are two different line items for what appears to be the same part #5 listed in the table. The descriptions are slightly different. Can someone please explain this? Is this the part that I will likely need to replace, and if so, which one do I need?



Thanks,
Tom

 

[sam am I]

tp, I have that motor as well (lil older, but same diff thou). Below is a copy and paste from a previous post of mine to johnny81, some relates to your question, most doesn't, weed out what ya don't need and maybe something is left that might help. In particular, the "side note"

Yes it does and it came stock and yes, directly connect it. There is a fuse inside the motor cowling.

I'm not sure I understand what ya mean by Perhaps a picture? Otherwise, I believe In that year/model, the stock external power out connector should have came w a rubber cap/hood housing on it? If so, pop that off, look down inside of it, you should see two metal male spades pointing up down inside?.......Those un-wired male spades of course mate up with the females on the engine side when the plug is on and in place.

The male spades are both molded into a plastic boss that makes up the connector assembly to wire too!! Carefully slip it out by prying/pulling the spade assembly from inside the rubber cap/hood housing and you'll find two set screws on the backs of each spade to attach your + and - wires to. You'll have to drill a small hole/s(it's sorta molded/pre-drilled already) in the rubber to fish the wires through to set the spade assembly w wires attached back inside the housing.........Tricksters eh?

Run the wires(1mm, 18AWG?, I'd suggest 2/2.5mm, 12/10AWG for like a 6' run) then of course directly to the battery to be charged.........You can also upgrade to 12 Amps output by adding another set of parallel wingings(w same reg you have now) should you need/want .

BTW, Honda(very smart engineers IMO) uses a unique smart sensing type regulator in that it has to see a load(slight current draw) before it turns on the 12V output....just a side note

In looking at the spec's for the pump, manu states "fully loaded, it can draw up to 20A @ 12V"? (Double check me)......If so, depending on current limiting circuit design in/of the Honda's Reg.(I don't have that spec, but typically limits current by voltage fold back, lets guess starting @ 20 Amps) and how long you run the pump[7ah/20a = 0.35 hrs (ideal max run time w full load, full charge, battery only)] verses how well charged/low the battery is/gets, you could potentially take out the Honda's fuse(15 Amp I think on yours))overloading the Reg. when the battery drops out.


Just a heads up, but since you have the 6 Amp stator, the stator will just limit out @ 6 amps, the 12V should be dropping out before your 15 amp fuse goes, you should then in theory, just run out of battery in say 15 mins w/o any fuse loss.

 

[tpbeebejr]

Thanks, sam am I. It sounds like you are suggesting that I may not be measuring any DC voltage with my voltmeter because there is no load on the regulator's output leads (since my voltmeter only puts a negligible load on the output). This is a good idea, and it could be the case, so I will check it in a few days. I can't recall for sure, but I think I tried to power a light directly last summer, and it didn't work. But my memory could be wrong and I might have just been thinking of doing that. Anyway, I'll check out your suggestion by using some 12-VDC LED lights hooked directly to the motor's output while it is running, and I'll simultaneously check the voltage while under load. These lights I plan to use will draw a load of about 0.5 A at 12 VDC.

I use the battery's 12-VDC output primarily to power my iPhone when running the Navionics US East navigation app and other apps for navigation, tides and wind. Right now I just use a trickle charger on the battery when the boat is in my garage. This solution works fine when the boat is out of the water, and I would do this anyway if I can get the motor to charge the battery when underway. I'll report my findings after I do these tests later this week. Thanks for your help and suggestions! Do you have any other suggestions for me to check?
Tom

 

[sam am I]

Your quite welcome Tom,

When I said "load", I meant battery as well in this case(I wasn't clear, apologies)..........I believe what Honda has done is prevent it from coming on w/o a battery due to the fact that w/o filtering(a battery/capacitance ), the DC output(or any DC output derived from AC for that matter)isn't quite DC until filtered properly.

It is then basically just un-filtered positively rectified signal. Thinking perhaps they knew/assumed, it might be hooked up to something(and rightfully so, it's labeled "12V DC output") that required reasonably clean DC and doing so w/o a battery/filtering could potentially destroy the DC requiring devices.

Best case, this device wouldn't be very happy w this un-filtered signal powering it due to the it will see the integrated avg. of the signal which is ........

for a half-wave rectified non-filtered sinusoidal(assume it's close enough to sinusoidal for the NSA) Vdc, Vavg = Vpeak/pi = 14/3.14 = 4.46Vdc

or for a full-wave rectified non-filtered sinusoidal(assume it's close to sinusoidal enough for the NSA) Vdc, Vavg = 2*Vpeak/pi = 2*14/3.14 = 8.9Vdc

Where Vpeak is the max regulated output peak voltage.

I'm not sure if Honda is half or full as I haven't put a scope on mine, so pick your poison, either is too low thou for happy hour.












So once filtered(not sure just a light per-se will work)......But, if hook up your re-chargeable battery to it(lead acid, whatever) along w the light if you want, rev it up a tad, watch your DC meter and i'll bet you'll see it now coming up from 12'ish heading to 14'ish

 

[sam am I]

...

 

[tpbeebejr]

OK. I understand what you mean. I'll try it both WITH the battery in the circuit and WITHOUT it. I'll report my results in a couple days after I have a chance to do the tests.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[sam am I]

np and plz do........thx

 

[tpbeebejr]

Here's an update on my tests with the charging circuit on my Honda BF9.9D (2009 I think). Using a good Fluke voltmeter to test the output voltage of the charging circuit results in 0.0 volts DC. The meter's internal resistance is so high (40 megohms I think) that it draws essentially no current when measuring a voltage. This looks like no load to the circuit, and so the charging circuit's output is apparently sensitive to whether a load is present or not. When I connected the motor's output to a 12 V battery and started the engine, I could then measure 14.2 VDC across the battery terminals. This dropped to 12.6 VDC when the motor was turned off. Problem solved!

 

[sam am I]

Very cool!!.....and thx tpb for following up and closing the loop.