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Why I Crimp And Never Solder

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  • #31
    Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

    Some of the wiring on mil subs is highly specialized, i.e. they use some wire that has no other application anywhere on the planet. I was reading that most communications/interfaces on subs has gone fiber optics.What I want to know is does a sub need a ground plate for the SSB...or is the sub the ground plate?

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    • #32
      Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

      yes they actually do. the sub, like a ship is actually a capacitor. stray capacitance is figgured into the design of the electronics and wiring. next topic should be on back-plane wiring now there is a killer subject
      no tech questions by PM, they wont get answered.
      you have to be trusted by the people that you lie to .

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      • #33
        Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

        ABYC is for "small" craft. USN ships are governed by a whole set of standards called military specifications (Mil-Spec) which are much more extensive and cover virtually every facet of the vessel including workmanship standards, component requirements, testing requirements, etc.Sometimes, the specs cut across all of the branches, like those for semiconductors. Sometimes they are specific to an application (e.g., limitations on the insulation that can be used on the wires in a sub due to fumes in a closed environment in case of fire)

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        • #34
          Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

          Here is my formula for a worry free wire connection.#1 - Slide on a piece of "heat shrink tubing" (heat shrink tubing will shrink 50% when heat is applied.#2 - Splice the wire#3 - Solder the wire#4 - Apply any color "finger nail polish" to the exposed wire and let dry#5 - Slide heat shrink tubing over splice and apply heatIt is now strong - protected - and water proof - and worry free

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          • #35
            Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

            JohnRuff way wrong way. ABYC will not accept it at all it has to be crimped anything else is fine but it must be crimped!

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            • #36
              Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

              Makes you wonder why they don't build television sets using crimp connectors if they are so good

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              • #37
                Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                Apples and oranges. TVs aren't subjected to the nearly the same harsh conditions as a boat. Failure isn't a big deal on a $300 item that sits still in a relatively climate controlled environment. Failure in a boat in the middle of heavy seas can cost you your life. I think if you read through the entire thread you'll understand the issues a little better.

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                • #38
                  Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                  Realgun,Wire do NOT have to be crimped. Step two says splice. That splice may or may not be accomplished by a crimp.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                    TVs are PC boards and soldered because of specific conditions.1. Componants on a TV do not get pulled.2. Componants on a printed circuit board have very little mass.3. TVs deal with high frequencies. With high frequencies you want to have very repeatable circuit paths and layout so you can design the best performance. Hand wiring does not work.L.I. Chuck - I believe you are right - there is no specific wording that says crimp. There is specific wording that says that solder shall not be what you count on structurally. What are you suggesting for structural support? This would have to be something that if the solder joint failed the connection would still be guaranteed to be solid.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                      See the fourth post in this thread.JB,All wiring in micocircuits is welded. In that application it beats soldering or crimping. Of course it requires highly specialized and very expensive equipment.And, as you know, super glue is non-conductive

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                      • #41
                        Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                        This is so funny, I can't believe it is here....again. I spent half of my day repairing electronic equipment, and half of my day doing ship wiring. The first half was soldering components to circuit boards, the second half crimping and soldering. I don't care what the abyc says....I don't manufacture pleasure boats, and I have never had the coast guard crawl under my dash for an inspection. And for the really paranoid.....my insurance agent barely knows a cabin cruiser from a cruise ship. Much less the composition of electrical connections. Once again, this thread is useless and serves no purpose. If you are capable of soldering you know what it does.....if not capable.....bend away. Oh, I forgot to mention, if you or someone in your family has been on a cruise ship in the last 15 years........you have been on a ship that has soldered connections for all of the life/safety systems.......most likely done by me......we don't trust crimp only connections. No need to reply....I don't care!!

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                        • #42
                          Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                          Well you should care what the manufacturer of the connectors (terminals) says which is posted above. They specifically recommend you do not crimp and solder.
                          Crimping takes advantage of work hardening the copper wire barrel to hold the wire in place. Mild heating of the crimp begins to stress-relieve the crimped area. When stresses are relieved, cold weld sites break. Broken cold weld sites increase the resistance between the wire and wire barrel. This, in turn, increases the temperature in the crimp area; further stress relieving the crimp. This scenario continues until the crimp area becomes overheated and may result in melted or burned insulation...Crimped Connection Myths “Soldering or Solder-Dipping Will Improve The Connection” Crimps are designed to work without solder or solder-dipped wire. When solder is present in a crimp, the deformation properties change. When the deformation properties change, metal-flow, cleaning, welding and residual force also change and compromise the mechanical and electrical properties of the crimp. With diminished mechanical properties, the connection may not survive normal uses. Furthermore, as electrical performance diminishes, the perils of static heating arise. Additionally, in some cases, copper wire may become embrittled or solder wicking may affect the flexure strength of the stranded wire. By soldering a crimped connection, the process heat may compromise the crimp.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                            Ralph,You have been flim-flammed. The reference material for the soldering information from Tyco dates back to 1950! The solders used today have different materials properties from those used in the referenced source material. Tyco has a vested interest in discouraging soldering. New solders are homogenous mixtures that don't crystallize.Tyco is also the only source that I could find that published this information. Every other source approved soldering if it was done correctly. In most cases soldering was considered unnecessary.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                              The date on the article is: 03 March 2003
                              Getting Back To Basics - Insulated Electrical Terminals03 March 2003
                              You can even call one of the authors. His name and number is right there on the page. http://www.tycoelectronics.com/prodnews.asp?ID=443 I think the issue is less about crystallization and more about the heat breaking the cold welds as discussed in the article and the annealing web pages cited.This is now two published discussions I've found that talked about this issue with 5 authors:
                              Jim Dunbar – Product Manager, Insulated Terminals & Splices and Tom Michielutti, Senior Product Engineer, Tyco Electronics, Harrisburg, PA Lysle Gray, Technical Director, ABYC, Paul Michalczyk of ANCOR Marine, and Jim Vaughn of FTZ Industries, all experts in marine wiring, for their consultations in preparing this article.
                              That's more sources than Newsweek had to start riots all over the Islamic world

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                              • #45
                                Re: Why I Crimp And Never Solder

                                The article was dated 2003 but look at the bibliography. The point of the article was to sell crimp on connectors.This is called marketing, it's hardly independent, scientific research.ANCOR Marine, hmmmm don't they make marine grade crimp conectors? Ditto FTZ Industries and Tyco Electronics. I can and have written compelling articles to convince the reader to buy my service or product. This is called salesmanship.

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