Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

[ctswf]

I need a little confidence in choosing my first combo unit.

I was going to get the raymarine dragonfly (under $700) then decide to wait for the dragonfly 7" (around $850 -900)

now the lowrance hds7 touch with structure scan can be had for 1200 after a mail in rebate, I've been leaning toward that lately.

reasons for choosing this unit so far is touch screen, side scanning, navionics platinum plus upgradable, even without the map upgrade it does 3d simulated navigation with built in maps which dragonfly can not.

Now that I'm in this price range what else should I check out? I think hummingbird w/ no touch screen does side imaging at 180 degrees, where the hds7 does not. However touch screen is a huge benefit in my opinion.

Thanks for any input, I haven't been able to get much info from busy sales reps in my local stores

$1200 is about as high as I want to go

 

[dingbat]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Your comparing apples to oranges. Your taking a step back whether the m unit

Dragonfly and the new Garmin units use the latest, state of the art CHIRP sonar. The HD7 and hummingbird still use " conventional" sonar which is a step backwards technology wise.

Garmin an advantage over dragonfly in that Garmin has CHIRP down and side scan. A whole different level of performance.

 

[ctswf]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Thanks I was not aware of the garmin side scan chirp units, I would get one for sure but it looks like a minimum of $1600 after you buy the black box sonar for side vu, too much for me.

Comparing the 2 units I mentioned, i feel like hds7 having traditional sonar with added side scan, better navigation, and a touch screen out weighs the dragonfly having chirp, the lowrance screenshots don't look a whole lot worse than the dragonfly, but I have no clue, I've never used any of this technology before

Does anyone else make a touch device with side scan under 1200 or so? Is side scan even necessary? It looks like a really important feature of a fish finder

 

[dingbat]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

You're' falling for one of the oldest tricks in the books. If you can impress them with performance, baffle them with needless gimmicks....

3D navigation is for people who want to play videos games on the water. Its does nothing to improve your navigation ability whatsoever. I have 3d chip on mine, came with the bathy charts. Used it once or twice, looked cool.......never turned it back on again.

Side scan...not the panacea they want you to think. Absolutely useless for big water applications. Must be moving under 6 mph? to work, with little to no wave action.

Conventional sonar vs. CHIRP...Absolutely no comparison. Lowrance sonar is weak to begin with. Head to head with Garmin CHIRP in the real world is an eye opener. I'm running one of the top, if not the top, recreational sonar on the market today. I'll most likely change over to CHIRP at the end of the summer. It's that good......

Screen shots are just that....shots of a screens someone wants you to see. Take it out into the real world. You'll see an entirely different picture...lol

Touchscreen has proven overtime to not be the wonder they make it out to be. Try pushing a small button on a touchscreen while rocking in on boat or pounding thru the waves and want to change course. Pushing buttons are much easier to operate.

FWIW: The Garmin Echo 70S is $999 and comes preloaded with Ocean or lake charts. They have a rebate on Vision chips right now so 3d navigation would cost you nothing if it was a "must have" in your mind.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

I took the Lowrance school on the touch screen units and I just didn't see the need for it, wet hands, big waves and rain don't make for a perfect environment for a touch screen.

Plus Lowrance manuals and menus leave a lot to be desired, the menus can be tough to navigate and using the manual doesn't help much.

I have a Lowrance unit and it works OK, not sure if I would go with one again next time though.

Down scan and side scan works for some things, but a unit that provides both regular sonar and those is better. I like the Humminbird 360 a little better, at least for how I fish, Lowrance has a new similar product, but it doesn't cover the same arc, you need to turn it to see each side of the boat.

Chirp is the latest, but this market keeps changing and in the next year or so there will be other "newer, bigger and better" features that will make all these current units obsolete.

Ease of use and rock solid reliable performance trump gadgets and the latest fluff.

To say there is one unit that is the best is hard to do, where and how you fish determines which technology will serve you best.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

.
Chirp is the latest, but this market keeps changing and in the next year or so there will be other "newer, bigger and better" features that will make all these current units obsolete..

CHIRP is nothing new. It has been in commercial use since the mid 90's. Only recently has the processing power and transducers necessary to process the signals come within reach (cost) of the recreational users.

At this point, only Simrad and Garmin offer true CHIRP technology. Ray's Dragonfly processes multiple "secondary" frequencies, but does not generate or process the full spectrum of frequencies ( requires special transducer) like Simrad and Garmin.

I suspect an array of CHIRP "like" units will appear on the market in the next couple of years. Light years ahead of conventional sonar, but a world removed from true CHIRP performance. Comparing vacuum tube video displays to 1080i flat screens. It's that good

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Chirp is the latest buzz word for the recreational user, which is what we were discussing. The commercial market tends have a very different marketing style. They also have customers that will pay for it if it works.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

I always wonder how the pre-electronic old-timers used to catch all those fish? We are getting lazy, including me.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

I always wonder how the pre-electronic old-timers used to catch all those fish? We are getting lazy, including me.

Well..I'm one of those pre-electroincs guys so I can shed a bit of light on that comment.

In case you haven't noticed, our fisheries have deteriorated badly over the past 10-15 years. I work three times harder to catch the boats limit than I did just 10 years.

We used to have no problems catching the 6 party limit in on a 1/2 day trip why using 20-25 gallons of 30 cent a gallon fuel ($7.50). Today, we're spending 8 hours and burning twice as much, $4.00 a gallon fuel ($200), to catch the same limit. Can't afford to aimless roam the desert in search of water....

On top of that, the lack of fish has forced many to look for new species. Bottom fishing in 1,000-1,200 of water was unheard of 10 years ago. Now days, not only can you see bottom in 1000'+ of water, you can tell if it's your targeted species.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Ding - I should have been more specific. I was referring to recreational fishing.

Fishing is your business, so it's a needed tool to put food on your table.

 

[alldodge]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

I want something to give me a picture of the floor in less then 100 feet, it's a seek-n-find dive thing, no fishing. I'll have to look into CHRIP and see what they have over the others

 

[dingbat]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Chirp is the latest buzz word for the recreational user, which is what we were discussing. The commercial market tends have a very different marketing style. They also have customers that will pay for it if it works.

What is the difference between recreational and commercial? Price? Where does recreational and commercial begin and end?

In my mind it's pretty simple. It has nothing to do with "Rec" or "Comm". Avid fisherman, offshore or tournament anglers, want a unit that performs well and doesn't break down. They buy on performance and reliability i.e "commercial" equipment.

If you want a unit to post screen shots to Facebook, text your wife or turn it into a video arcade game, go buy the "feature" packed, "recreational" unit at big box store unit at roughly the same cost.

Plan on poor electrical design.fair performance and a unit that will be disconnected in 2-3 years time so they can suck some more money out of you. It all goes with the "recreational" territory....lol

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

I always wonder how the pre-electronic old-timers used to catch all those fish? We are getting lazy, including me.

I was out there when we only had a compass, I didn't need one though.

I lived on the water on an island as a kid and worked at a nearby resort that rented 16' wooden boats, oars were included, a motor was an option.

If I could see fish working bait from my front yard I would push my boat into the water and row out to them, limits weren't typically a problem. Sometimes I could look down and see the fish I was after. Crab and shrimp were there too.

Now I normally need to cover many miles and do everything right to even have a chance at catching fish.

 

[ctswf]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Thanks everyone this is very informative, having never used any sonar/gps I?m still trying to learn whats best for my needs and budget,

3D navigation is for people who want to play videos games on the water. Its does nothing to improve your navigation ability whatsoever.

Good to know, it is not a must have in my mind.

Side scan...not the panacea they want you to think. Absolutely useless for big water applications. Must be moving under 6 mph? to work, with little to no wave action.

That makes sense, I do fish salt sounds like I can?t exactly scan the reefs like I planned. However If it works at all, it seems like it should be able to spot pods of bunker off to the sides as a float around the harbors with zero waves. I?m a little confused on side scanning coverage, does anyone know if ?side scan? is always 180 degrees? Hummingbird shows this as true. The lowrance hds7 unit says ?180 degrees? in specs, but on other graphics from them, they show it more cone like 60 degrees on each side.

Conventional sonar vs. CHIRP...Absolutely no comparison. Lowrance sonar is weak to begin with. Head to head with Garmin CHIRP in the real world is an eye opener?
FWIW: The Garmin Echo 70S is $999 and comes preloaded with Ocean or lake charts.

I would love to go CHIRP but I cant afford it
The garmin gpsmap 740s is also on sale for $799 (without transducer), since it and the echomap 70s do not support CHRIP, am I correct to assume these are comparable to the current lowrance/hummingbird units sonar technology?

I took the Lowrance school on the touch screen units and I just didn't see the need for it, wet hands, big waves and rain don't make for a perfect environment for a touch screen.
Plus Lowrance manuals and menus leave a lot to be desired, the menus can be tough to navigate and using the manual doesn't help much.
I have a Lowrance unit and it works OK, not sure if I would go with one again next time though.

Hds7 vs Hds7 touch, the touch screen version has more screen pixels when in full screen, easier menus, and dragable map. That?s why I felt the touch screen was so nice, at least comparing those to each other? yeah I would totally splatter fish hands all over the screen though.

Your comparing apples to oranges. Your taking a step back whether the m unit

**** I cant figure it out, I?m pretty sure whatever I afford for $1200 or less will be ?a step back? technology wise.

I have to say I?m leaning toward the hds7, even if Echomap 70s has slightly better sonar, does it not make sense that HDS7 with traditional sonar, side, and down imaging is still the better choise? Echomap 70s with down vu/side vu added will be $1600 and is also not chrip

 

[JoLin]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

I have the HDS-7 Gen 1 and it works okay. I'll be looking for a new one soon and have considered both the Gen 2 Touch and Garmin 740S. After careful consideration I've decided against either of them and intend to buy a 'non-touch' GPS again. Why? Bouncng around at cruising speed I can barely hit the right button on the one I have, let alone trying to stab a touchscreen in the right spot. Touchscreens have their place, but IMO not in a boat that jerks you around a lot.

I like the button/dial arrangmeent on the new Raymarine 'Dragonfly' series, but haven't found a good review on how well their GPS/Chartplotting works. Everything I've seen concerns their fishfinding functions. I don't have much use for that.

My .02

 

[OllieC]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

The new Lowrance Elite-7 includes CHIRP Technology. It was in boating magazine last month. Here's the link...no touch screen though-http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/News/Lowrance-Elite-Chirp/

I have last years Elite-7

 

[dingbat]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

The new Lowrance Elite-7 includes CHIRP Technology. It was in boating magazine last month. Here's the link...no touch screen though-http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/News/Lowrance-Elite-Chirp/

The Lowrance marketing department hard at work again. This unit is no more CHIRP than a peep in the hen house.

Model options include Elite CHIRP displays packed with an 83/200/455/800 kHz or 50/200/455/800 kHz Hybrid Dual Imaging (HDI) transducer

Note they list individual transducer frequencies.The same as conventional sonar...humm.....CHIRP sweeps across a range of frequencies say from 25kHz to 210kHz so there is no mention of individual frequencies only ranges.

Lowrance is playing the "CHIRP" card off the "range" of frequencies being offered on the unit.

 

[OllieC]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

The Lowrance marketing department hard at work again. This unit is no more CHIRP than a peep in the hen house.



Note they list individual transducer frequencies.The same as conventional sonar...humm.....CHIRP sweeps across a range of frequencies say from 25kHz to 210kHz so there is no mention of individual frequencies only ranges.

Lowrance is playing the "CHIRP" card off the "range" of frequencies being offered on the unit.

K :yield:

As I mentioned, I just read about the Elite having "CHIRP" (sounds like it's used loosely) in Boating Mag, but really know nothing about the technology. However I was a little bummed out because I just bought the Elite 7 last year before they added, whatever they added.....oh well....I Fish 25% and Pleasure the other 75%. (although fishing is a pleasure)

 

[84toyota]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Here's what I ordered yesterday... You might consider it!

Simrad NSS7 Evo 2 - You need to purchase the transducers as well. I am into it about $1350 total for the unit, the LSS-2 transducer, and a P66 transducer. It has CHIRP built in, structurescan (sidescan and downscan), touch as well as rotary dial/keypad, and much more...

Ken

 

[ctswf]

Re: Need a new combo unit, possible lowrance hds7 touch

Here's what I ordered yesterday... You might consider it!

Simrad NSS7 Evo 2 - You need to purchase the transducers as well. I am into it about $1350 total for the unit, the LSS-2 transducer, and a P66 transducer. It has CHIRP built in, structurescan (sidescan and downscan), touch as well as rotary dial/keypad, and much more...

Ken

Thanks Ken, I wasn't aware of that unit I'm very interested now! I was 90% sold on the hds7 today

Please tell me if my research is correct:

simrads are under the same parent company as lowrance but are higher quality. They use the identical lss-2 structure scan transducer right? Should sonar/gps performance virtually be the same as the hds gen2, unless you buy a specific CHIRP ducer?

Where did you order yours, that sounds like a deal isn't just the lss2 transducer $300 alone?

Thanks
Nick