Shocked, shore power plugged in

[elmwood]

I was working on the boat, its on the trailer, and its pluged into shore power. I was under it and wet from sweat when I touched the mounting bolt for the trim cylinders for the outdrive and got a nice shock. I unpluged the shore power and no shock. Ok so I'm good with house electric but don't have a clue where to start or what I'm looking for on the boat. I'm worried about killing someone if the boat is in the water and its pluged in. Normally the boat is in its slip at the marina. It is a 1996 Four Winns 258 Vista if the means anything.

Thanks for any help
Eric

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

heres a few threads to read to start with

http://forums.iboats.com/electrical...en-ii-question-electrical-problem-601945.html

http://forums.iboats.com/electrical...erse-polarity-only-when-boat-lift-603877.html

if you have a meter and you can take some readings for us then we can help you locate the problem if you are unable or unwilling to use a meter on 110v then you will require a electricain

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

I cut and pasted of unclewillys post as im lazy and he did a fine job writing it in the first place.
If you can get the post the results it will point to the problem. The boat should be plugged into a GFCI if it is not then do not test until it is.

Take your meter to the House Outlet and measure the voltages.

HOT to NEUTRAL = _____ ?
HOT to GROUND = _______ ?
NEUTRAL to GROUND = ______?

The other end of the pigtail is likely a NEMA L5-30 (if it Isn't, Speak up)
The Bent Blade is GROUND
The Larger Blade is HOT
The smaller Blade is NEUTRAL

Attach the pigtail to the House Outlet and measure the voltages.

HOT to NEUTRAL = _____ ?
HOT to GROUND = _______ ?
NEUTRAL to GROUND = ______?

The Shore Power Cable is Just an Extension Cord with a NEMA L5-30 on each end.
Now attach the shore power cable to the adapter and measure the voltages.

HOT to NEUTRAL = _____ ?
HOT to GROUND = _______ ?
NEUTRAL to GROUND = ______?

When we get the results we can move forward from there.

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

I appreciate the quick response. I will check these out in the morning. I do have a question, other than getting myself wet to get a good ground, like today, how can I use my MM to check for current on the exterior of the outdrive? Run a long wire from the ground in the boat outside so I can see the current from the outdrive? I’d rather not be the personnel gauge to see if the current in flowing, if you know what I mean. I'd like to also see how many volts are showing up out there.

Also thanks for the links. I read them all. That one gentleman is on the same lake as I am. Lake Ozark.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

You don't have to check for current, only voltage. If you have no voltage, you have no current. If you have voltage, you have current. Do the checks Glenn listed and come back. Then we have a starting place.

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Ok here are the results and on a side note, I got the GFCI plug to occasionally trip while moving the pigtail around. I could not establish a pattern by moving any certain way as if there was a short in it. It?s never tripped on me before, at home or the slip but then I?ve never moved it around a lot either. You really have to work at it to get it to trip the GFCI breaker.

Take your meter to the House Outlet and measure the voltages.

HOT to NEUTRAL = 123.5
HOT to GROUND = 123.5
NEUTRAL to GROUND = 0

Attach the pigtail to the House Outlet and measure the voltages.

HOT to NEUTRAL = 123.7~9 ( Don?t ask I don?t know why it?s higher. I rechecked the house and 123.5)
HOT to GROUND = 123.7~9
NEUTRAL to GROUND = 0

Now attach the shore power cable to the adapter and measure the voltages.

HOT to NEUTRAL = 123.7~9
HOT to GROUND = 123.7~9
NEUTRAL to GROUND = 0

Outlet inside the boat

HOT to NEUTRAL = 123.7~9
HOT to GROUND = 123.7~9
NEUTRAL to GROUND = 0

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

These Voltage indicate that that there was NOTHING wrong with the wiring at the time of the measurements.

I got the GFCI plug to occasionally trip while moving the pigtail around.

You problem is an intermittent in the pigtail. I suspect a loose wire causing an open.
You should be able to jump rope the the wire and never trip the GFCI.

The more you flex it, the more you may temporarily clean up the connection, masking the problem.
This is a potentially Serious/Deadly Porblem, Do not blow it off! It will not magically go away by itself.

Open up the connectors and Clean/Tighten Everything.

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

When I disconnected the pigtail from the cord everything inside was nice and clean and was connected tight. Now for replacing the pigtail I had already planned on getting a new one. It should be fine for right now since it is not continually tripping the GFCI. Now if I’m wrong please tell me so and I’ll go get one. I’m just trying to save a trip for right now in case I need to get other things to fix the other problem. It’s about a 3 hour trip for me to get another one today.

If everything appears to be ok why am I getting a shock at the outdrive?

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

If you tripp the GFCI sometimes, You are dealing with an intermittent.
At The Time of the Measurements the problem was not there.
Murphy is the timekeeper of intermittents.

Measure from the Outdrive to some damp nearby soil. If you measure near zero (<2v) , there will be no shock.

Were you able to inspect the Connectors on the Shore Power Cable and the Pigtail? (4 connectors)
Are some of these connectors molded assemblies and can not be internally inspected?

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Oh ok is see what you are meaning as in inspecting. No it is a Marinco power cord. It is all molded. I thought you were refering to the connection inside of the adapter ring. I will go check the ground and boat.

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Ok, nothing above 1.9v. Maybe it was cause I was so wet on the ground and I held my tounge just right and feeling any kind of voltage just got my attention.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

you need to test while the charger, fridge etc are running on the boat. Most items bleed a tiny amount when they are running which the ground cable takes care of this is like discharging static from the boat so if nothing is making the static then you will not be able to detect it.

also if you have a sprinkler system or a well pump check from the soil to the boat (metal item on boat to probe stuck in the soil - reading in volts) as theres always a chance that theres a problem that's not the boat.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Ok, nothing above 1.9v. Maybe it was cause I was so wet on the ground and I held my tongue just right and feeling any kind of voltage just got my attention.

It doesn't matter if you on wet ground, Eating Aluminum foil, Facing South and doing yoga!
Nothing you do should EVER give you a shock, or EVER Tripp a GFCI. NOTHING! EVER!

There is a problem, and you do not want to even consider the worse that can happen.
The cause MUST be found!

When you were shaking the Pigtail that tripped the GFCI;
Was the Shore Power cord attached to it? Or was it just the lone Pigtail plugged into the wall outlet, All by Itself?

These silly little nitpicking details are where the Devil lies.

Make the measurements, Especially at the boat while the cords abe being exercised.
Any intermittent jump in the meter need to be investigated throughly.
The connections should be dead solid. There should be no indication the the cords are being moved, Nothing at All!

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

When I get home today I'll turn other things on. The only thing that was turned on originally was the charger but I'll turn others items on. As for checking from ground to the boat I did that and that's where the 1.9v measurement came from. I don't have a well pump or sprinkler system.

When the GFCI in the garage tripped it was only the pigtail (15a to 30a adapter). The power cord was not attached at that time.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

When the GFCI in the garage tripped it was only the pigtail (15a to 30a adapter). The power cord was not attached at that time.

That would be a Major Problem.
If you can't open up the connectors to inspect/repair them; it is time to replace the Pigtail.
Cut Off the connectors so it doesn't get used again.

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Ok nothing is wrong with the pigtail. I checked 20 ways to sunday for continuity and its ok. I pluged something else into the GFCI and when you push pull and twist at the plug plugged in it trips. As long as your not trying to beat up the receptical its ok but yes its going to get changed out. I have some spares around here somewhere.

Now on to the boat again. BRB

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Ok so I had the charger, refer, stove, and even the vacuum. The voltage dropped to 119.9 to 120.1. I checked the outdrive and a solid 2v. I just don't know. I can't get it to do it again. I even felt it and nothing. I'm going to let the batteries drain down and get the charger really going and see what happens then.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Ok nothing is wrong with the pigtail. I checked 20 ways to sunday for continuity and its ok. I plugged something else into the GFCI and when you push pull and twist at the plug plugged in it trips. As long as your not trying to beat up the receptacle its ok but yes its going to get changed out. I have some spares around here somewhere.

Now on to the boat again. BRB

Good!
When you get nitpicky you find the real culprit.
It sounds like it was the House Outlet all along.
We would be interested to hear what you find behind the House Outlet.

The 2 volts is the drop generated by a working Galvanic Isolator. That is to be expected.

I'll bet that if you sit in the grass holding the outdrive and have someone shake the outlet, you get shocked just before the GFCI Trips!
DON'T Actually try that at Home!!! It could be your FINAL Success!

 

[elmwood]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

Ok ran the battery down enough after the radio and all lights were on a long while, I still need to change out those interior bulbs to led. Flipped on the charger and it kicked in. Measured the current off the outdrive and it was 2.5v but settled down to 2.3v after a few minutes. I didn't turn anything else on since all the other devices didn't raise the voltage bit. 1v. Saturday the charger was the only thing on. I did touch the outdrive to see if I felt even that small voltage and couldn't. I did that because I personally have some nerve problems and was wondering if that might have made me a bit sensitive to the voltage. I did not feel anything.

What to do now. I was planning taking the boat up Wednesday and putting in the slip. What to do. I guess I'll take it up and assume it was something that I just don't know. The one thing the other day it wasn't a large jolt I've had bigger shocks. I had a cabinet shop for ten years and have been playing with machines for 30 years. I do my own fixing when they break so yes I've been shocked before.

If anyone has any ideas to try speak up please.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Shocked, shore power plugged in

... I plugged something else into the GFCI and when you push pull and twist at the plug plugged in it trips. As long as your not trying to beat up the receptacle its ok but yes its going to get changed out.

Good!
When you get nitpicky you find the real culprit.
It sounds like it was the House Outlet all along.
We would be interested to hear what you find behind the House Outlet.

What to do now. ... I guess I'll take it up and assume it was something that I just don't know.
If anyone has any ideas to try speak up please.

Replace/Repair that House Outlet that trips the GFCI!