Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

[cpayne3]

Just purchased a used pontoon boat and the previous owner added alot of aftermarket stereo equipment. To power the stereo he was using (2) marine batteries by themselves with a third battery stand alone for running the boat motor and other electronics. He figured the (2) marine batteries could power the stereo for up to 6 hours of constant playing time and when he got through using the boat he would plug a battery charger up to those (2) batteries and recharge them for playing the stereo the next time.

Now there has got to be a better more efficent way of wiring 2 to 3 batteries together to make this more user friendly.

Stereo consist of:

3 Amps
2 - 10" Speakers
4 - 8" speakers
4 - 6" speakers
1 - 12" Subwoofer

Please offer some suggestions

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

Most people will use two batteries with a Perko battery switch insulating them from each other. Another option is to run one battery and just take a charged portable jump start box--in case the battery's run down by the radio.

Usually, the engine will be started and the boat run around--charging--before it gets completely run down.

You may not really need so many amps. Remember, you're not under perfect audio conditions. You need more of a high noise level versus a high fidelity situation. Putting so much money in a boat sound system is also overkill, as thieves troll for expensive sound systems on unlockable boats.

A kid used to come into my neighborhood late at night with a huge subwoofer in a Honda Civic. We could feel him coming from 2 miles away--the barometric pressure pulsed to the sub-woofer. Ears are not built for that, as he'll be deaf very soon.

There are also other people on the water that may consider you a nuisance--and even hate your taste in music. I suggest you cool it in the audio department--install something reasonable.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

Actually -- the power system can't get any more simplistic than it is. Even with a 20 or 30 amp charging system, unless you run for several hours at wide open throttle the engine will not keep three batteries fully charged should you decide to attempt adding them to the engine charging system. You indicate the two deep cycles are currently separate from the engine and the charging system which is fine. Either add an on-boad charger (permanently mounted in the boat) of about 15 amp output and then simply plug in at the dock whenever the boat is moored or continue to use a portable charger. Let the engine take care of the starting battery. I agree with others that three amps is not only an insult to the ears of everyone on board but to others on the water who prefer no to be bombarded with excessive noise (my term for the rumpa rumpa rumpa thumpa stuff) that is supposed to be music. If it doesn't have a "note or lyrics" it is not music.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

Actually -- the power system can't get any more simplistic than it is. Even with a 20 or 30 amp charging system, unless you run for several hours at wide open throttle the engine will not keep three batteries fully charged should you decide to attempt adding them to the engine charging system. You indicate the two deep cycles are currently separate from the engine and the charging system which is fine. Either add an on-boad charger (permanently mounted in the boat) of about 15 amp output and then simply plug in at the dock whenever the boat is moored or continue to use a portable charger. Let the engine take care of the starting battery. I agree with others that three amps is not only an insult to the ears of everyone on board but to others on the water who prefer no to be bombarded with excessive noise (my term for the rumpa rumpa rumpa thumpa stuff) that is supposed to be music. If it doesn't have a "note or lyrics" it is not music.

There are notes. They are just in the lower registers Its definitely music, just not your favorite type.

a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

www.m-w.com

Like they said though bud, that battery system you have is pretty much it. You don't want all that audio equipment draining your starter battery. And with that much wattage, you'll need some serious battery capacity(at least 2) to run it for any length of time at a loud level. Some of those serious car audio system are running 4 or more batteries and high output alternators to keep with charged.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

There are notes. They are just in the lower registers Its definitely music, just not your favorite type.


www.m-w.com

Like they said though bud, that battery system you have is pretty much it. You don't want all that audio equipment draining your starter battery. And with that much wattage, you'll need some serious battery capacity(at least 2) to run it for any length of time at a loud level. Some of those serious car audio system are running 4 or more batteries and high output alternators to keep with charged.

Hate to continue to disagree -- but that stuff is nothing more than "orchestrated noise". In most cases the music sheets would need only one line as the speakers are either ON or OFF -- thus the thumpa - thumpa. OK -- I'm done now. The younger generation probably doesn't appreciate classical, country & western, 50/60/70 either. But does it have to be so obnoxious and loud. I should probably invest in hearing aid stock huh? There will be a generation of deaf folks.

 

[mark1905]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

Ok.. never mind the nay saying old timers here. Do what you want and have fun with it! I run 4 amps with 14 - 6x9s and 6 - 4" speakers in my boat and wouldn't trade it for the world. I'm respectful of others and know when I can and can't turn it up. I go way the hell back in open country, lakes and swamps with no one around for miles. There's nothing like full stadium sound at WOT. Nothing.

Anyway.. your main problem here is that you can't upgrade your charging system like we can with an I/O motor. I run a 200A marine alternator and it pushes everything like a dream. The solution that the previous owner was using sounds like the best one, honestly. You can get plenty of stereo play out of 2 batteries and 3 amps. I was actually only running 1 battery to my previously 3 amps before and even with a decent amount of volume behind it would last a couple hours if not more. Make sure you have the biggest, baddest marine battery you can get. Walmart has decently cheap, huge, marine deep cycle batteries for around $85. One battery for starting and two batteries for stereo sounds like a decent enough solution.

This is what I would do. For the sake of argument, we'll call the starting battery #1 and the other stereo batteries #2 and #3.

- Get 6 of these multi-tap battery lugs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-8-AWG-Gau...011?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460107728b

- Daisy chain the grounds of all the batteries together with 4AWG marine cable. Ground from engine and all boat grounds to ground of battery #1, then cable to ground of battery #2, then cable from battery #2 to battery #3. Ground cable from #3 to a power distribution block like this: http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-GDB1-G...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329353027&sr=1-2

- Do the exact same thing with the positive connections.. boat and starter motor positive to #1, except between battery #1 and battery #2, you put an isolating solenoid as is discussed here: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=3557. Power distribution block off of #3 and all. Instead of the B/W unit that they reference there, I use the Stinger model. Same thing basically.. just I couldn't find the BW locally. Get some screw type ring terminals for that 4AWG wire to connect at the solenoid like this: http://www.amazon.com/P3-Platinum-P...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329358765&sr=1-3

- Hook the energizing wire of the solenoid to your ignition switched power.. so that it's only "on" when the boat is running. This means that when the boat is off, that the starting battery is NOT being drained by your stereo.. but as soon as you turn the boat on, you are charging and running off of all 3 batteries.

- Use 8AWG marine cable to hook all amps up from the power distribution blocks. I can't stress this enough - ONLY USE MARINE GRADE POWER WIRE!! The shorter you can make these wires, the better.

- Hook the power and ignition turn on to the stereo head unit directly to the power block so that you can turn the stereo on without the key being on. Just don't forget to turn it off!


There you go! You don't have to mess with any battery switches, your starting battery is protected and you can run your stereo without fear of not being able to get home.



Now, the other side of this is the stereo setup itself. Your big problem there is that a boat is about the worst place ever for subwoofers.. you will barely hear them compared to how much power they are eating up. The open air acoustics suck all the bass out. You are way better off with a ton of 6x9s. Trust me. I've installed many systems both on my boat and on others, and the best overall speaker size for the water seems to be 6x9s. You still get lower tones with plenty of treble. Set your amps to "high pass" and dial in the crossover frequency to around 250hz or so.. that way you aren't trying to put too much bass through them and distort.

Have fun!



EDIT: I don't know enough about your exact amps or your run length of wires. If your run lengths are longer than 5' or so, you may need to step up to 4 AWG for your amp cables and 1 AWG for the main wire to the power blocks. This would mean that you would need beefier power blocks and battery terminals as well. If you'd like to see what kind of equipment I run in my setup:

- I run a direct 1 AWG cable from the + and - of my main battery to these power blocks: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002CNTT0/ref=oh_o01_s00_i00_details

- I use these battery terminals and run 1 AWG cable to each block, one cable to the secondary battery, and one cable to the ground of the engine and the starter motor. Alternator is hooked directly via 4 AWG to my screw terminal on the battery: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YZ3W9I/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

- Secondary battery is isolated via this: http://www.amazon.com/Stinger-200-B...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329396475&sr=1-1

- I have my isolater switch hooked up to my stereo/amp turn on wire instead of my ignition, so as long as the stereo is on both batteries are activated.

- My amps are at the end of about 12' of power wire, hence the need for the 4 AWG. If they were only a few feet from the blocks, I could have gotten away with 8 AWG. Remember that as distance increases, so does resistance hence the need for thicker wire as it gets longer. When in doubt with a stereo amp, overdo it. Seriously. You'll choke the amp for power, it will send out a distorted signal, and you WILL blow your speakers. I went through a phase of literally blowing up the capacitors in the tweeters before I realized that it was all from choking the amps of power due to too small a gauge of wire being used. Thank god for no questions asked refund/returns via Amazon. I won't tell you how many I went through.. :facepalm:

- I run these amps: http://www.amazon.com/MB-Quart-NAU4...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329396598&sr=1-1 and these speakers: http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refe...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329396614&sr=1-2 and these for the swim deck: http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-4-...3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329396630&sr=1-3

- I can't say enough about the equipment listed.. those amps and speakers are incredible and super efficient. I have a few friends with pontoon boats running just one of those amps and 4 of those speakers off their stock system with absolutely no problems or special hookups. They barely drain the battery for how much sound they're putting out. Hands down the best marine amp that you guy buy right now.

 

[etracer68]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

FREEBIRD!!!!, yes im 56 years, and my parents didnt like our music either.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

FREEBIRD!!!!, yes im 56 years, and my parents didnt like our music either.

Nor will you probably like your kids or grandkids taste in music. Its the common theme through the years..

 

[xStreamPros]

Re: Pontoon Boat - Large Stereo - Multiple Battery Setup? How

Ok.. never mind the nay saying old timers here. Do what you want and have fun with it! I run 4 amps with 14 - 6x9s and 6 - 4" speakers in my boat and wouldn't trade it for the world. I'm respectful of others and know when I can and can't turn it up. I go way the hell back in open country, lakes and swamps with no one around for miles. There's nothing like full stadium sound at WOT. Nothing.

Anyway.. your main problem here is that you can't upgrade your charging system like we can with an I/O motor. I run a 200A marine alternator and it pushes everything like a dream. The solution that the previous owner was using sounds like the best one, honestly. You can get plenty of stereo play out of 2 batteries and 3 amps. I was actually only running 1 battery to my previously 3 amps before and even with a decent amount of volume behind it would last a couple hours if not more. Make sure you have the biggest, baddest marine battery you can get. Walmart has decently cheap, huge, marine deep cycle batteries for around $85. One battery for starting and two batteries for stereo sounds like a decent enough solution.

This is what I would do. For the sake of argument, we'll call the starting battery #1 and the other stereo batteries #2 and #3.

- Get 6 of these multi-tap battery lugs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-8-AWG-Gaug...item460107728b

- Daisy chain the grounds of all the batteries together with 4AWG marine cable. Ground from engine and all boat grounds to ground of battery #1, then cable to ground of battery #2, then cable from battery #2 to battery #3. Ground cable from #3 to a power distribution block like this: http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-GDB1-Ga...9353027&sr=1-2

- Do the exact same thing with the positive connections.. boat and starter motor positive to #1, except between battery #1 and battery #2, you put an isolating solenoid as is discussed here: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ead.php?t=3557. Power distribution block off of #3 and all. Instead of the B/W unit that they reference there, I use the Stinger model. Same thing basically.. just I couldn't find the BW locally. Get some screw type ring terminals for that 4AWG wire to connect at the solenoid like this: http://www.amazon.com/P3-Platinum-Po...9358765&sr=1-3

- Hook the energizing wire of the solenoid to your ignition switched power.. so that it's only "on" when the boat is running. This means that when the boat is off, that the starting battery is NOT being drained by your stereo.. but as soon as you turn the boat on, you are charging and running off of all 3 batteries.

- Use 8AWG marine cable to hook all amps up from the power distribution blocks. I can't stress this enough - ONLY USE MARINE GRADE POWER WIRE!! The shorter you can make these wires, the better.

- Hook the power and ignition turn on to the stereo head unit directly to the power block so that you can turn the stereo on without the key being on. Just don't forget to turn it off!


There you go! You don't have to mess with any battery switches, your starting battery is protected and you can run your stereo without fear of not being able to get home.



Now, the other side of this is the stereo setup itself. Your big problem there is that a boat is about the worst place ever for subwoofers.. you will barely hear them compared to how much power they are eating up. The open air acoustics suck all the bass out. You are way better off with a ton of 6x9s. Trust me. I've installed many systems both on my boat and on others, and the best overall speaker size for the water seems to be 6x9s. You still get lower tones with plenty of treble. Set your amps to "high pass" and dial in the crossover frequency to around 250hz or so.. that way you aren't trying to put too much bass through them and distort.

Have fun!



EDIT: I don't know enough about your exact amps or your run length of wires. If your run lengths are longer than 5' or so, you may need to step up to 4 AWG for your amp cables and 1 AWG for the main wire to the power blocks. This would mean that you would need beefier power blocks and battery terminals as well. If you'd like to see what kind of equipment I run in my setup:

- I run a direct 1 AWG cable from the + and - of my main battery to these power blocks: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details

- I use these battery terminals and run 1 AWG cable to each block, one cable to the secondary battery, and one cable to the ground of the engine and the starter motor. Alternator is hooked directly via 4 AWG to my screw terminal on the battery: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details

- Secondary battery is isolated via this: http://www.amazon.com/Stinger-200-Ba...9396475&sr=1-1

- I have my isolater switch hooked up to my stereo/amp turn on wire instead of my ignition, so as long as the stereo is on both batteries are activated.

- My amps are at the end of about 12' of power wire, hence the need for the 4 AWG. If they were only a few feet from the blocks, I could have gotten away with 8 AWG. Remember that as distance increases, so does resistance hence the need for thicker wire as it gets longer. When in doubt with a stereo amp, overdo it. Seriously. You'll choke the amp for power, it will send out a distorted signal, and you WILL blow your speakers. I went through a phase of literally blowing up the capacitors in the tweeters before I realized that it was all from choking the amps of power due to too small a gauge of wire being used. Thank god for no questions asked refund/returns via Amazon. I won't tell you how many I went through.. :facepalm:

- I run these amps: http://www.amazon.com/MB-Quart-NAU46...9396598&sr=1-1 and these speakers: http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Refer...9396614&sr=1-2 and these for the swim deck: http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-4-I...9396630&sr=1-3

- I can't say enough about the equipment listed.. those amps and speakers are incredible and super efficient. I have a few friends with pontoon boats running just one of those amps and 4 of those speakers off their stock system with absolutely no problems or special hookups. They barely drain the battery for how much sound they're putting out. Hands down the best marine amp that you guy buy right now.

I noticed you said "I use these battery terminals and run 1 AWG cable to each block, one cable to the secondary battery, and one cable to the ground of the engine and the starter motor." But the terminal has only 3. Can you help me on this? Assuming on your setup you have 2 power blocks.

 

[GA_Boater]

Welcome aboard, XSP. You may have missed that this topic is getting close to 3 years old. Please do not reply to topics older than 90 days unless you are the topic starter. Thanks.

EDIT - I forgot to recommend starting a new topic and referring back to this one.

 

[H20Rat]

Hate to continue to disagree -- but that stuff is nothing more than "orchestrated noise". In most cases the music sheets would need only one line as the speakers are either ON or OFF -- thus the thumpa - thumpa. OK -- I'm done now. The younger generation probably doesn't appreciate classical, country & western, 50/60/70 either. But does it have to be so obnoxious and loud. I should probably invest in hearing aid stock huh? There will be a generation of deaf folks.

Generational... No generation likes the next generation's music! Personally, born in the late 70's, I absolutely hate almost every piece of 'music' from the 60's and 70's. Nothing but a bunch of drugged up hippies with zero actual music ability. The only way to appreciate that is to be as stoned as they were when they wrote/performed it. Janis Joplin, The Doors, zeplin, etc... Can't change the station quick enough! (don't get me wrong, they MIGHT have one good song, but that is about it.)

(enjoy classical, almost anything instrumental. George Winston in particular and any bluegrass. Also very successfully competed in car audio competitions with a very, very loud system!)

 

[GA_Boater]

I's time to close this one, guys. It is an old topic, after all.