12/24 plug to straight 24v

[KDAVID1]

Ok so I finally got to the wiring on my plug and wanted to make sure you guys think I did it correctly.
In the picture the writing you see says white pos and neg. The old wires were white, red, and black. I put the new red wire where the white wire was (and has the jumper) and of course the black to neg. The motor runs so I think I am good (will the 24v motor run on 12v?) Your feed back would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Wiring the plug is only half the issue. Unless the receptacle connections match the plug you may still only be operating 12 volts. Since we have no idea what motor you had before we also don't know if what you did is correct. Yes -- a 24 volt motor will run on 12 volts but not very well. If it is an electronically controlled motor it may not steer or control speeds properly either. On the new 24 volt only motor black is negative and red is positive. Connect the plug and use a voltmeter to measure across the red and black wires. If yoj have 24 volts you are good to go. If you have anything other than that you still have a problem. How about showing us the "receptacle" wiring.

 

[KDAVID1]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

The old motor was motorguide 12/24. The new is Minn Kota 24v. The recep. and plug are the original I just rewired the plug for the new motor. I'll take a pic of the recpt wiring and send across.

 

[KDAVID1]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Ok--I don't know why this was so hard for me but--I have 24v now. The problem at first is that I put the new Red wire where the old white wire was (that has the jumper). For some reason i was thinking that was the way to get the 24v. Seems the way the recep. wiring is 24v is the norm and the jumper on the plug is so it can step down? Anyway--I swapped the red on the new to the red on the old and good to go--and checked with the volt meter. I don't know why I don't rely on the meter more often. i suppose it's because I'm so green at wiring but I'm getting their with the help from the iboats crew (and especially silvertip). I just hope my questions can help other. Thanks again.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

There are several combination 12/24 volt wiring schemes but all of them are basic 12 volt systems because most of the motors being sold are 12 volts. To get to 24 volts the batteries need to be wired in series (12+12 = 24) so that is when the jumper is necessary. Two batteries in parallel still provide only 12 volts but the capacity (run time) is doubled. You will notice that there are FOUR wires coming from the batteries -- two from each battery. The jumper in the plug is what makes the series connection between the two batteries. For a two battery setup but one that provides only 12 volts, the white and black would need to be jumpered and the red and orange would need to be jumpered. Motors that had a 12/24 selector switch didn't need the jumper since the switch did the series/parallel connection. When it comes to boat electrical, keep the voltmeter handy and know how to use it effectively. It is the most important tool in the tool box when it comes to electrical diagnosis.

 

[KDAVID1]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

There are several combination 12/24 volt wiring schemes but all of them are basic 12 volt systems because most of the motors being sold are 12 volts. To get to 24 volts the batteries need to be wired in series (12+12 = 24) so that is when the jumper is necessary. Two batteries in parallel still provide only 12 volts but the capacity (run time) is doubled. You will notice that there are FOUR wires coming from the batteries -- two from each battery. The jumper in the plug is what makes the series connection between the two batteries. For a two battery setup but one that provides only 12 volts, the white and black would need to be jumpered and the red and orange would need to be jumpered. Motors that had a 12/24 selector switch didn't need the jumper since the switch did the series/parallel connection. When it comes to boat electrical, keep the voltmeter handy and know how to use it effectively. It is the most important tool in the tool box when it comes to electrical diagnosis.

YEP on the meter. Although it is working perfectly-now-the fact that my hookup to the plug has the wires connected to the spaces without the jumper--and on the recep. when I check voltage on the two wire pairs (red black, white orange) it is just 12v on each pair but get 24v coming out (checked on the neg and red on the plug-I just need to study it a little more so I can understand it better.

 

[dwparker99]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

To better understand it, it might help to follow the current flow from the batteries to the TM. Like Silvertip said, to get 24V the batteries must be wired in series. They can be put in series at the batteries or at the TM plug. Yours seems to be put in series at the TM plug. Here is how I see your current flow: Current leaves batt A out of the neg terminal on the black wire going to the TM. Out of the TM on the red wire back to the pos terminal of batt B. Out of batt b neg terminal on the white wire to the male TM plug thru the jumper to the orange wire back to the pos terminal of batt A.

Many 24V(only) TMs are wired like yours using 4 wires. The advantage to 4 wires is it allows you to wire another male plug and use it to charge both batteries at the same time (a practice that is convenient but not the best). The disadvantage is it uses 35-45 feet of wire that is not necessary. This wire drops voltage and makes the system less efficient. I estimate that converting my 50lb thrust TM from a 4 wire to 2 wire system put another .5V of working voltage at max power to my TM at a cost of $7 and 10 minutes time. Is the difference noticeable? Probably not. But when you are kind of anal about efficiency as I am, it makes you feel better.

Hope this helps and didn?t muddy the water even more.

 

[KDAVID1]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Nope--didn't muddy the water. I appreciate all of the help. All is set up and working fine--on this project I didn't redo anything--just changing a few component--remove and replace. The funny thing is I am pretty sure the batteries are in parallel (I need to take another look to be for sure) and the receptacle is what brings the two together? The main reason I say this is that I have two cb's (one for each battery which may or may not mean anything) and checking the voltage on the backside of the receptacle each wire pair(pos and neg) only has 12v and get the 24v on the plug side. I am on the mission now to understand all the wiring on this boat--just for knowledge.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Do not misunderstand the parallel and series business. Your batteries are NEITHER series NOR parallel between the batteries and the receptacle. They are simply two separate 12 volt circuits up to that point. They ONLY become parallel OR series by the jumpers or when they are not used, by the 12 volt setting or 24 volt setting of the switch on the motor. Yours does not have that switch so it is the jumper that makes the SERIES connection.

 

[dwparker99]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Having 24V on the male plug side means the batteries are in series. They can't be in series and parallel at the same time. That would create a direct short across the battery.

 

[KDAVID1]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Having 24V on the male plug side means the batteries are in series. They can't be in series and parallel at the same time. That would create a direct short across the battery.

Gotcha--thanks.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Having 24V on the male plug side means the batteries are in series. They can't be in series and parallel at the same time. That would create a direct short across the battery.

Nobody said they were or even suggested they were! Remove the jumper and you have two sets of 12 volts with no connection between the pairs whatsoever. Therefore they are not in series nor are they in parallel as was just explained.

 

[KDAVID1]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Nobody said they were or even suggested they were! Remove the jumper and you have two sets of 12 volts with no connection between the pairs whatsoever. Therefore they are not in series nor are they in parallel as was just explained.

I attached the wiring diagram (if it worked) the picture on the left is exactly how the wiring is--

 

[dwparker99]

Re: 12/24 plug to straight 24v

Nobody said they were or even suggested they were! Remove the jumper and you have two sets of 12 volts with no connection between the pairs whatsoever. Therefore they are not in series nor are they in parallel as was just explained.

Silvertip, what gives dude? Since you quoted my post and ended your first sentence with an exclamation point, I assume you are yelling at me. I take offense to that. Allow me to summarize my posts and try and explain how they relate to this thread. In post #7, I referenced you an agreed that for a 24V TM to work properly, two 12V batteries had to be wired in series. The main purpose of the post was to let KDAVID1 know that he could make his system more efficient and put a little more power to the TM by using two wires vs the four wires going from batteries to TM. He didn?t show interest so I dropped it. In post #8, KDAVID1 seemed to accept that his system was wired in series but he also stated ?The funny thing is I am pretty sure the batteries are in parallel.? If he thought they could be in series and parallel at the same time, he might try and wire it that way in the future. With the TM plugged in, he would get sparks when he tried to wire it that way. If the TM was unplugged, he could wire it in parallel with no sparks until he or someone else plugged in the TM. At that point something would fry. My post #10 was to help him understand two 12V batteries can?t be wired in series and parallel at the same time.

I hope your post #12 was a result of taking something out of context and that the above explanation helps. I appreciate you and other knowledgeable people like you sharing that knowledge with the rest of us. That is what makes these forums so useful.