Deep Cell Info Needed

[LuvBoating]

First, our boat is a 1992 Celebrity 200 Cuddy Cabin w/a Mercruiser 5.7L I/O.

​We have a Dual Battery set-up using a Perco Battery Switch, NAPA 800 CCA Starting Battery and a Sears Diehard Deep Cell 650 CCA Battery. We bought both in March of 2016, however, we did not know that Sears doesn't Pro-Rate their marine batteries. They have a 1 year full replacement Warranty and that's it.

​Anyway, due to a couple of major repairs (outdirve and stern) and weather, we've only had the boat on the water twice since buying/installing the batteries. Neither time we used the Deep Cell. One time we got just outside the channel, from Dry Storage, and came right back in, due to wind/waves. Other time, we went to the Jacksonville Landing, tied up, ate at restaurant and left immediately (due to heat and oncoming rain storm), so we didn't use the Deep Cell for anything. Unfortunately, after starting the boat on Starting Battery, I didn't switch over to "Both" or #2 (Deep Cell) for charging. Just went back to Storage on Starting Battery. Now, when running the boat on "muffs", I will switch from #1/Starting to either "Both" or #2/Deep Cell, but only for a few minutes.

​So, last week I took both batteries out for our winter season. Got them home and checked with my little hand battery tester. The Starting Battery was a little low, but the Deep Cell was dead (no charge at all. Have both a Deltran Tender Plus and a Schumacher 12 amp/3 stage Charger/Maintainer. Charged the Starting Battery up fully and "load" tested it (fine). Put the Deep Cell on the Deltran for about 12 hours, then onto the Schumacher. Power Light came on, Charging yellow light came on, but started blinking (cell sulfation). After awhile, the yellow blinking light went solid (charging). Later, a green flickering light came on (fully charged/maintaining). Took off and "load" checked.......showed "Weak". Returned to Schumacher Charger for a little while. Let sit overnight. .

​Next day, took Deep Cell to Sears for testing and was told, and showed (printout), the battery needed replacing. Bad cell and too low of amps. Then, took to NAPA for testing, showed same.

​Apparently, we didn't use the Deep Cell enough, since buying it. IOW, it sit too long in the boat w/o being used.

​Questions:
In using a Deep Cell on our boat "overkill"? When tied up at the Landing, and relaxing, we only use the CD Player for music. No other electronics are used. Our first batteries for our Dual Battery set-up were two Starting Batteries. But, after reading about Deep Cells, decided to get one when the Starting Battery we were using for "house" went bad at the end of 2015. Should we get another Deep Cell or go with a Starting Battery for "house"?

​Is getting a Digital 12V Car (and Marine) Battery Tester (Load Tester and Analyzer of Battery Life), worth buying for $42 on Amazon? It would be easier, and more accurate, testing both batteries, while on the boat, with this rather than the small battery checker I've got.

All help will be MUCH appreciated. Thanks!

 

[alldodge]

Sounds as you don't need a deep cycle but there is no issue with having one. Guessing the main reason the battery needs replacing is the charge got to low and stayed there. This same issue could happen even easier with a start type bat over the deep type.

It's almost always best to have a second bat for safety. The issue your running into could be fixed by adding a Blue Sea add a battery kit. This way there is no need to switch the battery switch to both in order to charge both bats. Only time the switch would need to be used is if the primary bat would not start the motor.

A simple HF load tester is enough to check a bat. Charge the bat, let it sit for a few hours and measure then load test. Any weak or failure will be noticed

 

[LuvBoating]

Sounds as you don't need a deep cycle but there is no issue with having one. Guessing the main reason the battery needs replacing is the charge got to low and stayed there. This same issue could happen even easier with a start type bat over the deep type.

It's almost always best to have a second bat for safety. The issue your running into could be fixed by adding a Blue Sea add a battery kit. This way there is no need to switch the battery switch to both in order to charge both bats. Only time the switch would need to be used is if the primary bat would not start the motor.

A simple HF load tester is enough to check a bat. Charge the bat, let it sit for a few hours and measure then load test. Any weak or failure will be noticed

​Actually, your "sounds like you don't need a deep cell" is what a friend of ours, who has been around, and owned, boats for years told me. He also told me on the phone that he never used marine batteries in his Dual Battery set-up. He used car batteries and said they worked out fine. Think we'd rather stick with marine batteries. What you said "this same issue could happen even easier with a start type bat", I definitely believe from what I've read about the recharging of the start type and deep cell type. Start ones don't like being recharged much, unlike the deep cells do.

​As far as the HF load tester, we haven't got any way to charge either battery while the batteries are in the boat, except when underway. With the digital battery tester, we could test each battery while they are on the boat. Another thing, the HF (whatever that means) load tester, doesn't give all the info the digital tester does. I THINK for $42, it could be worth it. Still thinking about it. .

 

[dingbat]

I?ve run 2-deep cycles batteries forever.

I run a lot of electronics for hours at a time while trolling. Minimal charge coming off the motor. Would drain both batteries in an outing using conventional batteries. Switched to deep cycle and played the switch game until it got old.

Installed an add a battery kit and reworked the wiring to put everything but the start circuit and one bilge pump on one battery.

I now have plenty of power without thinking about it.

 

[alldodge]

When tied up at the Landing, and relaxing, we only use the CD Player for music. No other electronics are used.

Was telling me you don't use anymore juice then someone would use running their car radio at the park. A good regular bat will last several hours of playing without filling the bat. If you were running a amp then I would think different.

Agree deep bats can handle a lower discharge then a start bat, but if your not using much power out of it, I don't see a problem. Recharging them is not an issue, just how far down they can be discharged before damage can occur.

we haven't got any way to charge either battery while the batteries are in the boat, except when underway.

This may be the largest issue, even more so if this is a outboard. If your not running long enough to fully charge the bats back up they will continue to go down. Over time no matter which bat you have, it can give up.

Would also check to see if something is causing a small drain on the bats when everything is turned off.

 

[roscoe]

It very well could be that the deep cell battery was a bad one from the very start.

Having a bad battery directly from the store is not unheard of.

 

[LuvBoating]

Was telling me you don't use anymore juice then someone would use running their car radio at the park. A good regular bat will last several hours of playing without filling the bat. If you were running a amp then I would think different.

Agree deep bats can handle a lower discharge then a start bat, but if your not using much power out of it, I don't see a problem. Recharging them is not an issue, just how far down they can be discharged before damage can occur.



This may be the largest issue, even more so if this is a outboard. If your not running long enough to fully charge the bats back up they will continue to go down. Over time no matter which bat you have, it can give up.

Would also check to see if something is causing a small drain on the bats when everything is turned off.

​First, the NAPA Starting Battery seems to be fine. After fully charging it on the Schumacher 12amp, I done a "load" test on it and it stayed in the "Green/Good" area of the tester. However, we are going to take that battery to NAPA this coming weekend (or before) and have them test it.........to make sure it is 100% good.

​What I'm wondering is, do we consider getting a new Deep Cell next Spring, or go with a new Starting Battery instead. I'm still confused about that. We know now that the Deep Cell is pretty much "overkill" for our boat, due to only running the CD Player when tied up, but I keep reading about how a Starting Battery doesn't like to be recharged that much. Please give me some help with this. We don't want to buy a Deep Cell if a Starting Battery would be better.

​Our boat is an I/O. The only thing that is on "auto" when the engine is off, and the Perko Switch is "OFF", is the bilge pump. It will automatically come on when enough water gets into the bilge area and raises the float to turn the pump on. We've never had that much water in the bilge with the boat out of the water.

​My plan is, in the Spring, put the Starting Battery back in, along with a new Deep Cell (or Starting Battery, if that is recommended), hook up my Load Tester to the Starting Battery, turn on the engine and see how the alternator is functioning for charging.

 

[alldodge]

From my understanding of how you boat, you only need one battery. It is best to have two for safety and backup.

Deep bats can be discharged to a lower point then start bats, but neither have an issue with multiple recharging so long as they have not been discharged below their minimum. Either type bat will work

Would suggest as dingbat mentioned, keep your current setup but add an ACR for automatic charging.

http://www.iboats.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Add-A-Battery-Kit/dm/view_id.729810

 

[LuvBoating]

From my understanding of how you boat, you only need one battery. It is best to have two for safety and backup.

Deep bats can be discharged to a lower point then start bats, but neither have an issue with multiple recharging so long as they have not been discharged below their minimum. Either type bat will work

Would suggest as dingbat mentioned, keep your current setup but add an ACR for automatic charging.

http://www.iboats.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...view_id.729810

​We had the Dual Battery setup done in Feb 2012, when we bought a Barracuda Starting Battery to go with the NAPA Starting, that was on boat before Dual setup done. Due to my wife working a full-time job, during week, only time we could take boat out was on weekends. Unfortunately, due to bad tide times, wildfire smoke and rain storms, we couldn't take the boat out nearly as much as we wanted to. IOW, the boat sat a lot. On weekends when the tide times were against us, we'd go and start the boat up on the "muffs", just to start it up. Actually, we thought we use our boat a lot more by putting it in Dry Storage, but due to tide times, weather and repairs, it just hasn't happened that way. When both the Barracuda and NAPA batteries went bad, we bought another NAPA Starting and decided to buy a Deep Cell instead of another Starting.

Also, when a new block put on boat in 2012, new alternator installed also.

​We need to take our boat out more, but tide and weather here hasn't allowed that to happen that much. Not good for our batteries, but. Funny, the problems we have here on getting on the St Johns River, we never had when we lived in Colorado and went on freshwater lakes.

​MAJOR QUESTION: With the Perco Switch, it's ok to switch from #1/Starting to either "Both" or #2/Deep Cell with the engine running............right. I mean, the Perco Switch is set up for that and I've read that using the switch when the engine is running is fine. But, obviously, don't ever put the switch in the Off position with the engine running.

 

[dingbat]

MAJOR QUESTION: With the Perco Switch, it's ok to switch from #1/Starting to either "Both" or #2/Deep Cell with the engine running............right. I mean, the Perco Switch is set up for that and I've read that using the switch when the engine is running is fine. But, obviously, don't ever put the switch in the Off position with the engine running.

The majority of select switches have "make before break" contacts but some don't. It's best to contact your manufacturer to confirm the functionality of your particular switch.

 

[LuvBoating]

Well, it looks like we are going to get another starting battery in the Spring. That one being the same as we have now, a NAPA 800 CCA. After much thinking about what boaters are telling us, we decided that a Starting Battery would be more practical for us, rather than the deep cycle type.

​And, it looks like we will also be getting a 12V Battery Tester and Analyzer that is on Amazon for $54. Merry Christmas to me! LOL

 

[alldodge]

I have bought several NAPA bats over the years, but next to none of them last very long. I live in the country and NAPA is closest, so this is the reason to use them. That said, I stopped buying them last year, they just don't last as long as most other major brands.

 

[Grub54891]

I myself stopped buying Napa, and interstate batteries quite awhile ago. To much bad luck with them. Been buying Deca batteries from Auto value, Been having no issues for three years now.

 

[LuvBoating]

Has anyone used Exide boat batteries, specifically Starting batteries, from Academy Sports?

​Wonder why some boaters have better results with some brands of batteries, while others don't. IOW, how long they last.

 

[alldodge]

Sorry, did want to turn this into another battery thread.

Wonder why some boaters have better results with some brands of batteries, while others don't. IOW, how long they last

This is the issue and IMO it mostly comes down to how well bats are maintained, the bat charger and how well it does charge. Someone has trouble with a bat and replaces with another brand and all is good. Maybe it was the bat and maybe it was something else.

I have a dozen or so things which have from 1 to 3 bats in each, boats, dozer, tractor, and others. The ones I switched to AGM's have had no issues for many years and still going. The lead acid bats need more attention and don't last as long in my apps. In most cases you get what you pay for, cheap bats are cheap bats, unless where talking NAPA. NAPA is just higher then others but have nothing better then the cheap guys IMO

 

[LuvBoating]

Sorry, did want to turn this into another battery thread.



This is the issue and IMO it mostly comes down to how well bats are maintained, the bat charger and how well it does charge. Someone has trouble with a bat and replaces with another brand and all is good. Maybe it was the bat and maybe it was something else.

I have a dozen or so things which have from 1 to 3 bats in each, boats, dozer, tractor, and others. The ones I switched to AGM's have had no issues for many years and still going. The lead acid bats need more attention and don't last as long in my apps. In most cases you get what you pay for, cheap bats are cheap bats, unless where talking NAPA. NAPA is just higher then others but have nothing better then the cheap guys IMO

​We have a very good battery charger/maintainer that doesn't take hours upon hours to bring a battery up to a full charge. This is the Schumacher 12 amp Ship 'N Shore one.

​Thing about cost is, not every boater can afford a high costing battery. Yes, the old statement, "cheaper doesn't always mean better" could definitely apply to boat batteries, but how much to spend on a battery would have to depend on the finances a person has. Optima batteries definitely aren't cheap, but they sound great.

​Another reason we changed our mind about getting another Deep Cycle is that the Deep Cycles I've looked at are all Maintenance types (low maintenance, but still). Which means the water has to be checked in the battery cells every so often. Starting batteries are Maintenance Free, which makes it somewhat easier to maintain. IMO

 

[bruceb58]

I myself stopped buying Napa, and interstate batteries quite awhile ago. To much bad luck with them. Been buying Deca batteries from Auto value, Been having no issues for three years now.

Just so you know, the NAPA AGM is actually a rebadged Deka.

 

[bruceb58]

Another reason we changed our mind about getting another Deep Cycle is that that, the Deep Cycles I've looked at are all Maintenance types (low maintenance, but still). Which means the water has to be checked in the battery cells every so often. Starting batteries are Maintenance Free, which makes it somewhat easier to maintain. IMO

All flooded lead acid batteries need the water checked. You are kidding yourself thinking the starting battery doesn't need it's water checked unless it's an AGM type.

 

[Grub54891]

Just so you know, the NAPA AGM is actually a rebadged Deka.

Thanks for the info. But I don't use agm's. I'm kind of old school yet with batteries.