Minn Kota 3hp...anyone have one?

[gm280]

First I'd like to say that I totally apologize for all the problems I created with this circuit board and am very ashamed that I didn't catch those issues myself.

I guess I need to let other people's circuit's alone and just forget trying to to help if I can't do better then that. Secondly, I really have to say that I honestly thought the PWM DIP was the one I installed. I checked the one on the board and bought its replacement. So I wish I still have the old parts yet, but they are long gone.

I am glad you did get the circuit fixed and working though. Had I had all the pieces, I know I would have got it running as well. But I just changed the parts that tested bad and even some that were questionable to make sure all the active parts were new. I am very particular about doing such things and can't even see how I allowed a solder bridge to occur. I guess my best repair days are long behind me now. :sorry:

I honestly thought, wrongly I see now, that I would replace the burnt parts and send it back to him and he would once again enjoy his trolling motor. I see that ideas was wrong. I am truly sorry and will not offer others such help knowing I actually didn't help at all. Please accept my sincere apologizes again. :sorry: :grey:

 

[sam am I]

gm WTH?

I can't speak for jeep but, geesh

1) You can't catch what you don't know exists. Well maybe a cold/flu......

2) Maybe someone else worked on the board and put in that other IC eh? Something fired that board major before you ever saw it, perhaps it was previously worked on!! Even if not, easy fix, stop!! You know how many times I've/we've in the industry soldered in an IC upside down or read a part number wrong, for crap sakes........

3) Yes having all the pieces certainly makes a puzzle earlier to see.

4)The solder splash I think came after your work! jeep said he wasn't a solder pro...

5) Chill!!! The PCB is cheaply made (sorry jeep), the via's almost fall out when I heat them.

6) You got it up back 95% with no info and a PCB full of fired components , I came in from the side lines with hide-sight and as you know, that always 20/20! I only had to tidy up the small bits

Curious, are you Catholic? J/K.......but, WE fixed it for him!!

 

[jeepwm69]

First I'd like to say that I totally apologize for all the problems I created with this circuit board and am very ashamed that I didn't catch those issues myself.

I guess I need to let other people's circuit's alone and just forget trying to to help if I can't do better then that. Secondly, I really have to say that I honestly thought the PWM DIP was the one I installed. I checked the one on the board and bought its replacement. So I wish I still have the old parts yet, but they are long gone.

I am glad you did get the circuit fixed and working though. Had I had all the pieces, I know I would have got it running as well. But I just changed the parts that tested bad and even some that were questionable to make sure all the active parts were new. I am very particular about doing such things and can't even see how I allowed a solder bridge to occur. I guess my best repair days are long behind me now. :sorry:

I honestly thought, wrongly I see now, that I would replace the burnt parts and send it back to him and he would once again enjoy his trolling motor. I see that ideas was wrong. I am truly sorry and will not offer others such help knowing I actually didn't help at all. Please accept my sincere apologizes again. :sorry: :grey:

On the contrary GM, I would have tossed this motor had you not been kind enough to help me. You did so without charging me a dime, and there is no telling how much time you spent going out of your way to help me. I sincerely thank you for your help. Had you not offered to help in the first place this thing would have been tossed months ago.

 

[jeepwm69]

gm WTH?

I can't speak for jeep but, geesh

1) You can't catch what you don't know exists. Well maybe a cold/flu......

2) Maybe someone else worked on the board and put in that other IC eh? Something fired that board major before you ever saw it, perhaps it was previously worked on!! Even if not, easy fix, stop!! You know how many times I've/we've in the industry soldered in an IC upside down or read a part number wrong, for crap sakes........

3) Yes having all the pieces certainly makes a puzzle earlier to see.

4)The solder splash I think came after your work! jeep said he wasn't a solder pro...

5) Chill!!! The PCB is cheaply made (sorry jeep), the via's almost fall out when I heat them.

6) You got it up back 95% with no info and a PCB full of fired components , I came in from the side lines with hide-sight and as you know, that always 20/20! I only had to tidy up the small bits

Curious, are you Catholic? J/K.......but, WE fixed it for him!!

When I solder stuff I tend to end up with solder all over everything BUT the part that I'm attempting to solder. Chances are, if there is solder somewhere it's not supposed to be, it's some that I dripped while messing around with it. I HATE SOLDERING.

The motor was bought new, and no one worked on it until I tried to use it and got a high pitched whining noise and then nothing. Magnet in the bottom had come unglued from the housing and fallen on the armature, and apparently that coupled with me turning the handle over and over again trying to figure out why it wouldn't work fried the board.

I'm sure my poking around in it probably added to the damage.

I've rebuilt two ATV engines in the last 4 days before and after my 9-5. I like to wrench, but electrical stuff is akin to sorcery to me. Thank you both for your help. I will just be glad to see life breathed back into the old motor.

Sam, please let me know what I owe you for parts and your time.

 

[jeepwm69]

Which reminds me, when the magnet fell on the armature, it broke in half. I epoxied it back together, and then epoxied it back into the housing. Motor seemed to run fine with bottom + and - wires run straight to 12V.

Is my Rube Goldberg fix going to cause issues? Replacement magnets weren't available, but if I'm going to fry an otherwise good motor with my jerry rigging I'll try to find another magnet from someone parting out a motor.

 

[sam am I]

Is my Rube Goldberg fix going to cause issues?

From a particle stand point, the perm magnets in your motor are just millions of smaller magnets (particles) with their own NS domains that are sintered making them all form effectively one big NS magnet.

When they break and you glue them back together, their might be a small crack but, it does in fact, from a magnetic domain stand point, fix the perm magnet as if re-sintering just two bigger particles. The motor will perform properly (as you experienced), still being elect-mag balanced and such BUT from a mechanical stand point? If it breaks.... it could lock up the armature when she lets loose. Time isn't your friend running on a glued fractured mag.

 

[jeepwm69]

From a particle stand point, the perm magnets in your motor are just millions of smaller magnets (particles) with their own NS domains that are sintered making them all form effectively one big NS magnet.

When they break and you glue them back together, their might be a small crack but, it does in fact, from a magnetic domain stand point, fix the perm magnet as if re-sintering just two bigger particles. The motor will perform properly (as you experienced), still being elect-mag balanced and such BUT from a mechanical stand point? If it breaks.... it could lock up the armature when she lets loose. Time isn't your friend running on a glued fractured mag.

I'll keep an eye out for another magnet.

When I discovered the broken magnet I did some nosing around and apparently Minn Kota used some crappy glue on some of these old HP trolling motors, and magnets coming unattached is pretty common.

I used some good epoxy on both the magnet and to attach the magnet back to the housing, but will try and find an unbroken replacement to stick in there.

 

[sam am I]

jeep,

Sent the board and switch out (tracking number sent in PM, used bigger box, can you get a refund on the pre-paid label? I included the label in the bigger box I sent).

The board works just duckie and a half after a good run on a 10A load at 12V, solid and cucumber cold in fact..................Your flex, where it solders at and onto the board however is slowly beginning to break down, the crimp pins are wearing/wobbling out and Pin #6 trace in the flex is broken (similar to mine) open but, since pin #5 is in parallel, its fine BUT, be sure and try to minimize bending it! (get it installed/in place ASAP).

Below is the internal workings of the switch that I had guessed about waaaaaaaay up in a earlier post...........The corrections/connections are as follows and are indicated in the print. This print should also help close things up as far as wiring the motor and PCB up to this switch.







Given the above of how I found the switch to functionally work and as I understand it, the secondary brushes (I call them that) are turned on twice while twisting the throttle in forward direction only (two stage momentarily contacts make initially at minimum throttle, then open as the throttle continues then make again at full throttle).

Not sure what Minn kota is doing but, with that second set of brushes in parallel with the primary brushes (I call them that) and based on how I know the switch is working, they're shifting the timing is my guess twice as the throttle is rotated in the forward direction.

Thinking this should about close up any gaps in info presented above........

 

[jeepwm69]

Awesome. Thank you so much!

I will keep an eye out for it, and get it installed ASAP.

Sending you a PM as well.

 

[jeepwm69]

Board arrived yesterday, but I worked late last night so didn't get it installed. I did get some homemade jelly along with the return of the board.

A big thank you to Sam I Am for all of his help, as well as to GM280.

I will try to post up a vid after I get the board in. If either of you are ever in Eastern Arkansas I'll buy the BBQ and beer.

 

[sam am I]

Deal!!!

Basically a wild mountain blueberry we call a Huckleberry jeep, we pick the berry's in the summer up in the hills around here and she's loves to make the jelly and share it. Good stuff on toast.......

 

[jeepwm69]

It's been a super hectic week, but yesterday I finally got the motor reassembled and....nothing.

Took my voltmeter and the battery I was using was at 5.7 volts. Oops.

(I was using a small lawn battery off of one of my mowers for testing)

So charged it up and this morning before work I tried it again, and IT WORKS!

Initially it ran at full speed (and faster than I remembered it running) in both directions regardless of where the handle was as far as speed control, but after going back and forth a few times the handle started controlling the speed as it should, although at full speed it slowed down a little from the initial bursts.

Important thing is, IT WORKS!

Going to be out of town for Easter, but will head out to the pond on the farm next week and give it a good workout.

Thanks again to GM280 and Sam am I for all their help.

And I'm looking forward to the jelly. My grandmother used to make Muscadine jelly every year when I was a kid, then the farmer adjacent to our land killed the good vine, and we never could find another good vine.

I've found some at local farmer's markets though. Love some good homemade jelly. Can't wait to try this Huckleberry.

 

[sam am I]

Hmmmm, erratic running speed could be those wobbled out flex crimp pin holes jumping around jeep!!

If it's not the rotational mechanics and such of the throttle assembly itself perhaps causing issues............

And as I not real sure how the flex is routed from the throttle down to the board after assembled but, the flex might need a bit of preload/back pressure on it so those wobbling out holes and crimp pins tighten up against (bite into better) and into the conductive film traces that run on the flex.

I noticed my test lamp could flicker (assumed would translate to jumping speeds) on occasion if I allowed the flex to be centered/float about those loosing crimp pins/flex holes. I found that adding a little pressure in either direction would tighten all those assemblies better thus the lamp would be always be solid on at any intensity and vary from one intensity to another smoothy as i ran my thumb nail on the flex resistor.

Oh and I looked up Muscadine, its a grape!! Wow, never heard of this.............

 

[jeepwm69]

I haven't had time to fish much this year, but took the wife out last week, and used the 3HP. It worked great...except.....when I put it in reverse, we go forward, and when I put it in forward, we go in reverse.....

I'm guessing this will be as simple as swapping the wires coming off of the board that go to the foot, right?

Even so, it powered us around the pond for a couple of hours and it was awesome having it back in service again. Thanks again to Sam and GM for all of their help bringing this old relic back to life!

 

[sam am I]

put it in reverse, we go forward, and when I put it in forward, we go in reverse.....

I'm guessing this will be as simple as swapping the wires coming off of the board that go to the foot, right?

Yup, the polarity of wires AFTER board are reversed somewhere, perhaps the wires at the brushes are reversed? or the prop is on backwards ;0

Even so, it powered us around the pond for a couple of hours and it was awesome having it back in service again. Thanks again to Sam and GM for all of their help bringing this old relic back to life!

Np, gm did all the hard work, I was just along for the ride

Glad to hear it lives though!! I see so many electronic devices pitched over the years at the dump and such, I just have to re-frame when I see like a classic stereo amp, tuner/receiver or even TV's else I'd be dumpster diving all day and have a s**t ton of stuff.

Definitely fixing this type of stuff is in the blood, guess I enjoy both the challenge and learning. My kind of mystery/puzzle one might say, thank you.

 

[gm280]

I am very glad "sam am I" came in and fixed the stuff I seem to have screwed up. And I am equally glad you now have a working TM again that seems to have sentimental issues with you as well. The reverse issue isn't hard to fix, and I think you can handle that without a problem.

So much could have been avoided had I properly repaired the board from the get go. But I honestly thought I replaced that exact parts that were removed. How the PWM chip was the wrong one, still haunts me. :noidea:

Obviously I equally should have replace all the via's that came out with the relays as well. That would have saves a lot of trouble-shooting. And it is absolutely inexcusable for ME to have made a soldier bridge when working on the board. I have been a NASA Micro-Miniature Certified Soldier for well over 40 years, and that is not certified work by any standard. That IS on me and I accept it without issue! Very sorry. :doh: :facepalm:

So ashamed for creating problems, :sorry: but very glad you have it working now. :thumb:

Glad there is a happy ending either way!

Oh, and for the record, you own me nothing. I volunteered to do the work and was hoping to repair it for you. So we are even in that respect. Just use it and enjoy. :yo:

 

[jeepwm69]

I am very glad "sam am I" came in and fixed the stuff I seem to have screwed up. And I am equally glad you now have a working TM again that seems to have sentimental issues with you as well. The reverse issue isn't hard to fix, and I think you can handle that without a problem.

So much could have been avoided had I properly repaired the board from the get go. But I honestly thought I replaced that exact parts that were removed. How the PWM chip was the wrong one, still haunts me. :noidea:

Obviously I equally should have replace all the via's that came out with the relays as well. That would have saves a lot of trouble-shooting. And it is absolutely inexcusable for ME to have made a soldier bridge when working on the board. I have been a NASA Micro-Miniature Certified Soldier for well over 40 years, and that is not certified work by any standard. That IS on me and I accept it without issue! Very sorry. :doh: :facepalm:

So ashamed for creating problems, :sorry: but very glad you have it working now. :thumb:

Glad there is a happy ending either way!

Oh, and for the record, you own me nothing. I volunteered to do the work and was hoping to repair it for you. So we are even in that respect. Just use it and enjoy. :yo:

I'm still not too sure that the "solder bridge" wasn't from me splashing solder all over everything while trying to attach the jumper wire.

I appreciate your modesty, but without your initial help this would still be a pile of parts in the back of my shop, waiting to be tossed out.

Thank you again for your help.

 

[jeepwm69]

Yup, the polarity of wires AFTER board are reversed somewhere, perhaps the wires at the brushes are reversed? or the prop is on backwards ;0



Np, gm did all the hard work, I was just along for the ride

Glad to hear it lives though!! I see so many electronic devices pitched over the years at the dump and such, I just have to re-frame when I see like a classic stereo amp, tuner/receiver or even TV's else I'd be dumpster diving all day and have a s**t ton of stuff.

Definitely fixing this type of stuff is in the blood, guess I enjoy both the challenge and learning. My kind of mystery/puzzle one might say, thank you.

The wife is quite irritated at my collection of old stereo equipment too. People all want an Ipod with a portable speaker now, and I'm carting home Pioneer rack systems with 3 ft tall speakers, turntable, cassette, and equalizer and telling her what a treasure it is, while she's rolling her eyes and telling me it has to go to the shop, NOT the house.

The thing about the old stuff....it lasts, and still sounds great.