Solenoid works but it won't click/ start the motor

Msimpsoncba

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1960 Evinrude 35 Lark, Nylox 13" boat. I am trying to restore this boat I found and can't get it to start. These are the facts
-The motor runs with the pull cord, but it won't turn off without the ignition wired in.
-The ignition is brand new and I've tried every combination of wires on it with no luck. I can get sparks by crossing some of them.
-All the wires on the boat were tested for continuity with a multimeter and they're all good.
-The solenoid has been tested and is good, although I don't think it's an original solenoid. It clicks when I test it with the battery.
-The fuses look okay.
-I can touch the negative starter battery cable to the positive battery post and get the starter to kick on.

I crossed the wires on the solenoid (see pic) on the "I" and "S" posts and the starter ran backwards but the solenoid didn't click! But when hooked up how the diagram indicates, there's no click. Nothing. So I'm kinda stumped. Any ideas? Thank you! Can't wait to get in the water.
 
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alldodge

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I can touch the negative starter battery cable to the positive battery post and get the starter to kick on.

It will crank over doing this? You should be having a straight short to ground and there should be a large spark

For the solenoid to work it has to have 12V applied to on of the small terminals (S) when the key is moved to start position, and it needs a ground. Remove the two small wires and check to see if you get continuity between the S terminal and the outer case where the mounting screws are.

If you cannot read continuity between the case and S terminal, then check between the S and I terminals. From your pic, it doesn't appear the wire is connected to a ground, its just on one side of the terminal board

sol.jpg
 

sam am I

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"Works but doesn't click"? Not sure they work w/o clicking unless main contacts are fried open...

But I think Dodge hit the nail, and to make it click..........

The solenoid grounds at the case. Uncross the two smaller wires (put back to their correct position if you haven't already, "I" wire/terminal goes to coil+, "S" wire/terminal goes to the ig. switch "S" ) and run/assure a good ground connection at the mounting bolts/metal base of the solenoid............that otta get er click'n.

This one tends to pop up a bit with these base grounded type of solenoid, usually the install sheet lets ya know (in 5 languages) the solenoid grounds through the base, but who reads those? ;)

BTW, is this (or does it need to be?) a explosion/spark proof solenoid marine grade? Looks automotive, just ask'n, want ya safe........
 
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Msimpsoncba

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Dodge - are you saying the ignition needs to ground or the solenoid or both? The wire you pointed to... The diagram on the box shows it like that. If you see the negative battery cable on the bottom right, I was thinking that the one wire connects to the metal of the whole box and grounds through the box to the negative battery cable. Is that incorrect? Doesn't the solenoid ground through the metal of the box that way too?
Also when I check for continuity like you suggest, should I get that with the key in Start position or without power?
 

alldodge

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Your right the wire does not got to the terminal, it goes out. Appears the wires on the small terminals are swapped by you pic. Note the ground lug at bottom center and it should also ground the relay casing. The wire I pointed to previously is white, the drawing shows red, and does appear there are others missing, or been bypassed.

Most outboards stop running when the magneto is grounded
 

Msimpsoncba

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So after swapping the two small wires on the solenoid, should I just start replacing wires / cleaning up connections?
 

alldodge

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So after swapping the two small wires on the solenoid, should I just start replacing wires / cleaning up connections?

I don't really know for sure, I'm only seeing the box, you need a wiring diagram and I have not found one. Being a Evinrude ya might want to ask a question in this area. The wires are pretty bad looking and could use some clean up, but also need to find out how the relay and ignition works.

Most relays are energized when the key moves to start. So I would look for 12V on the small post when the key is turned. Next check the ignition switch to see if when it goes to off that there is a grounding of the wiring going to the magneto. I'm not an OB guy, just some things I've picked up along the way. This is a 6 position with a push to choke, yours may be different. With this switch, one magneto wire goes to the mag and the other goes to ground, and doesn't matter which. This is how the motor is turned off

OutboardIgnitionSwitch.jpg
 

Msimpsoncba

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Yes that's the ignition I have. The accessory purple line isn't hooked to anything now. How will I be able to test the grounding on the magneto wires?
If there is 12V on the small solenoid post with the key on, does that mean the solenoid is properly grounded?
 

alldodge

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Yes that's the ignition I have. The accessory purple line isn't hooked to anything now. How will I be able to test the grounding on the magneto wires?

One side goes to the magneto and the other goes to a battery negative wire/ground. When the motor is running there is no connection between the two black wire connections. The magneto is not grounded when running, or trying to start it. The ground is only connected to the magneto when the motor is to be shut down

If there is 12V on the small solenoid post with the key on, does that mean the solenoid is properly grounded?

Should be 12V on one of the small terminals only when the key is turned to "start". There should not be 12V on it when in the run mode
 

sam am I

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Little deeper reading on this old beast............

According to Evin or Rude, whichever guy, the OE solenoid should not an "slave-type four stroke" type (automotive). The motor came equip with what they term a "two-cycle outboard engine starter motor solenoid" (The typical OB Solenoid) .....


The difference? 2 differences each

On slave types,

1) The solenoid has to be grounded at the base in order to be energized.
2) The "I" terminal sends 12V out when the solenoid is energized (goes to coil's positive)

All else the same

On "two-cycle outboard engine starter motor solenoid"

1) The base is just for mounting and is not used for grounding (although I wondering if some later versions can do both, see #2 just below)
2) The two small terminal (labeled "S" and "I" slave types) are used as and termed as "key switch" and "safety switch/ground"

All else the same

And this is where the problem/s clues may lay........

The "key switch" terminal (labeled "S" on slave types) does still wire back to the "S" terminal of the ig. switch and is typically the left small terminal, no change there. However, the "safety switch/ground" terminal (labeled "I" slave types) must be grounded to energize the solenoid. It is typically the right small terminal (They're not polarized, so swapping the terminal's wires on this type of solenoid is okay)

This "safety switch/ground" terminal wires to either

1) a SPST "safety switch" that grounds when things are "safe" (not sure if that's a cover/cowling safety interlock or what, Rude was a stickler for safety evidently).

2) or simply wires to ground.

The "safety switch" lives on the starboard side of the engine somewhere.

If you have an "slave-type four stroke" type installed as opposed to the "two-cycle outboard engine starter motor solenoid" and are wired how Evin (or Rude) wired the motor accordingly, I think you can see where things have and are going wrong. The "slave-type four stroke" type can obviously be made to fit as long as you wire it accordingly.....GL
 
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Msimpsoncba

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Sam am i-
Thanks for the advice. I got a new solenoid in there that's tested and works and it's the right one. Still won't click, still can't get it running.
I thought it might be that "safety switch/ ground" was bad. So I ran a 10g wire from that terminal on the solenoid and grounded it directly to the engine block (at a point that looks like the fuel pump ground to). When I did that the solenoid clicked but the boat didn't start. What do you think I should do next?
 

sam am I

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When I did that the solenoid clicked but the boat didn't start

Just "click" with a new solenoid with no cranking implies bad starter and/or the path to the starter but, backing waaaaaaaaaay up however, you said.........

-I can touch the negative starter battery cable to the positive battery post and get the starter to kick on.

This ^^^ I don't understand. Huh?

You are taking the starter's negative (ground) cable and touching it to the batteries positive post? Where is the starter's positive cable tied when you're doing this?

Why not leave the starter's negative cable bolted to the pwr head/junc box (along with the batteries negative cable) and take the starter's positive cable (off the solenoid) and touch it to the positive battery post to see if it kicks in?

Or better yet, and again, leave the starter's negative cable bolted to the pwr head/junc box (along with the batteries negative cable) and short across the solenoid's big terminals with a screw driver (jumper cable, etc) and see if the starter kicks in?


I think this is your motor's wiring, should help as well............
image_248379.jpg
 
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sam am I

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So I ran a 10g wire from that terminal on the solenoid and grounded it directly to the engine block

BTW, leave this ^^^ 10g wire grounded as you have it for now...........We're getting somewhere, don't want to go backwards ;)

I going to assume your battery is up to snuff too!!
 
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