My first boat! Free of course!

[Sparksman]

Well I had a long well written post but my computer deleted it... Now everyone gets the short hand version...

So I now have a free 12' double haul flat bottom that was my recent departed uncles. It sat for years out back upside down on some saw horses. Its seen better days, has a few cracks in her, but I believe its worth fixing up.

After I do all the fiberglass work patching it up I want to coat both the inside and out. Inside I want a bed liner to not be slippery, and now Im thinking just doing the same on the bottom. Ive read some pros and cons about bed liner on boats, but usually they are bigger, nicer boats.

I will be rowing only, at most a little electric trolling motor so speed isnt a factor. Il get there when I get there, I just want something to make it out to the middle of the lake. Weight isnt a issue either, as it will be carried to the water instead of trailered since it so small. 2 People can load in the back of a truck, 10lbs more isnt a deal breaker lol.

Since it will be carried, it will be being sat down on the ground quite often. Also sliding in the water from a bank will scratch the bottom. I intend on loaning this boat out to family so I wouldnt doubt it being outright dragged a few feet at some point. I want protection for the bottom, is there any real reason I shouldnt line the bottom on this boat?

It wasnt kept on the ground, I moved before photo.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...pskvkh0on5.jpg

 

[Woodonglass]

Does she feel Heavy? Does she sound Hollow? I'd guess she may be foam cored and if so the foam may be waterlogged and that could added a lot of extra weight to her, and...there's really know way to dry her out. She appears to have a "Rub Rail" at the midsection which Might allow you to separate the top and bottom halves. If so and since the foam core would be so thin you MIGHT be able to use a shop vac to suck out the moisture if any. The other issue you may have is...She may NOT be fiberglass. She may be ABS Plastic. If so, patching her is a bit more problematic. West Systems makes a special epoxy called G-Flex which is supposed to work extremely well on this type plastic. Your pics make me think she may be plastic instead of Glass, but...I've been wrong a lot of times!!! Once you determine what she's made from, we can/will be here to help you in any way we can.

 

[Mikeopsycho]

:welcome: Hi Sparksman. Looks like you got yourself a nice old Livingston. Check out their website, you can find out the year, weight, etc., of your boat with the serial number, which should be on the outside of the transom if I remember correctly. My little 7footer is fiberglass, so I'm thinking yours would be glass too. I also think I read somewhere that there are airtight chambers for floatation, not foam, but I could be dreaming. If it was me, I'd just do repairs as required and not bother with using bedliner. I think you'll find the inside really isn't that slippery. On the exterior of the hull maybe do some gelcoat repairs then use some kind of keel guard material adhered to each keel for protection. Just my 2 cents worth. Ya already got WOG's attention, and that's a good thing, so whatever you decide to do you'll get lots of help here. Good luck!

 

[Woodonglass]

Duh, I forgot about the Livingstons!!!! For Sure They are Fiberglass..http://www.livingstonboats.com/pages/construction and they do have flotation foam in the seat cavities. You could have some water saturation but doubtful. Post up some pics of the hull damage that you have and we can help with the repairs. Here's a link to another members Paint job on his Livingston..http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...0-prep-for-painting-inside-of-livingston-boat

 

[Sparksman]

Does she feel Heavy? Does she sound Hollow? I'd guess she may be foam cored and if so the foam may be waterlogged and that could added a lot of extra weight to her, and...there's really know way to dry her out. She appears to have a "Rub Rail" at the midsection which Might allow you to separate the top and bottom halves. If so and since the foam core would be so thin you MIGHT be able to use a shop vac to suck out the moisture if any. The other issue you may have is...She may NOT be fiberglass. She may be ABS Plastic. If so, patching her is a bit more problematic. West Systems makes a special epoxy called G-Flex which is supposed to work extremely well on this type plastic. Your pics make me think she may be plastic instead of Glass, but...I've been wrong a lot of times!!! Once you determine what she's made from, we can/will be here to help you in any way we can.

Thanks for the reply! For a 12" boat I can toss it around on my own, Im 25, 6'3 245lbs though lol. My 59 year old father helped me lift in into the back of the truck. That rub rail is riveted on, I dont want to remove that if at all possible. Thanks for the links, Ive learned a bit already! I dont think I will be doing as nice of a restore as the guy in the link does. This is a side project I have going before fishing season starts. My real passion is cars, I have a 3 year project on going Im trying to get on the road lol. But that doesnt mean I want to do a half *** job, I want to properly patch the holes, cosmetics just take a backseat. I want to preserve it as well encase I want to go full restore down the road.

:welcome: Hi Sparksman. Looks like you got yourself a nice old Livingston. Check out their website, you can find out the year, weight, etc., of your boat with the serial number, which should be on the outside of the transom if I remember correctly. My little 7footer is fiberglass, so I'm thinking yours would be glass too. I also think I read somewhere that there are airtight chambers for floatation, not foam, but I could be dreaming. If it was me, I'd just do repairs as required and not bother with using bedliner. I think you'll find the inside really isn't that slippery. On the exterior of the hull maybe do some gelcoat repairs then use some kind of keel guard material adhered to each keel for protection. Just my 2 cents worth. Ya already got WOG's attention, and that's a good thing, so whatever you decide to do you'll get lots of help here. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply! I will have a few patches on the inside that need to be sealed anyhow. I also dont want a patchy looking inside, a quick coat of anything would look better. I think I know what Im going to do for the inside Il explain a little further down --vvv As for the outside I was looking at keel guards but there $100 bucks a pop. Id need like 4 or 5 of them.... my boats not quite the "flat bottom" I remember, the rear has 4 small keels and two big ones up front. But like the inside I think I have a decent plan.

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So I managed to make progress today, got it out the bushes and gave it a good bath. It revealed some bittersweet news, its structurally sound, doesnt have any signs of bad rot, and no damage to the side haul, front or rear. BUT... It does have about 4 quarter sized spots on the inside, some of the railing could use some touch up. There are a few holes on both sides by the drain ports on the floor, and both keels need some serious work. I've enlisted my father who has done fiberglassing professionally for the bad spots. Ive never done it, and like having a second opinion. I can see someone took some red goo and poorly plugged a hole, and the gel coat seen better days.

So on the inside --- after I patch and seal that spot with gelcoat. Hit the inside with some kind of paint to protect and de-uglify. Im not sure if I want to go blue, I might encase it ever flakes off it wont contrast too bad. Im still set on buying a gallon of roll on bed liner. I want to only cover the floor, railing and raised seating area front and rear. Not fully coating side walls will save weight, and cost. Its a bit of masking but I think it wold look good done.





On the outside--- After I patch and seal them with small dab of gel coat. Im going to make my own keel guards with the liner as opposed to whole boat coating. Im going to mask off and apply a couple layers of bed liners to the bottom of both the main hauls. Ive read some of the bed liners may not liek being submerged for long periods of times. So After I line, Im going to hit with the DA sander to smooth out and gel coat over top of the bed liner. Three reasons, 1 so i have the protection for my keels from punctures. 2 it will retain its same smooth hydrodynamics while only gaining minimal weight. 3 it will seal the bed liner from contact with the water, wont saturate the rubber/plastic. Gel coating over the top will also prevent water from getting between the haul and the liner.

As of now its in the barn out of the elements to thoroughly dry. I want any possibly water inside to evaporate over the next few days before I start filling things in and seal it up. It was heavier after washing then it was prior lol...

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Here are some pics I snapped of the clean boat and damages.

 

[Mikeopsycho]

Sounds like you have a plan, keep us posted on your progress. Great job posting with lots of detail and many, many pictures....we like pictures :watermelon:.

 

[Sparksman]

^ Will do, I hope to update until she's finished. I like taking pictures, so there will be more pics!

So today Ive done played phone tag with all the local stores and marinas. Found my best pricing, everything but the gel coat can be bought in town. Its cheaper to order the gel coat off of ebay after a hour or two of searching. $55 bucks for a gallon of 3M white gel coat, I thought that would suit my needs. Most everywhere else they want the same amount but for a quart instead. If need be I could triple coat the whole boat for the cost of one fancy quart, and still have some left for touch ups. At least the guy at the boat shop said 1 quart would cover a 12'-X5' boat fairly easy.

Thats what I wanted to ask you guys. How much would it take to cover the bottom of my boat with a decent coating or two?

Because If it does only take a quart to 2 quarts at most, id have 2 quarts left. I was thinking instead of doing a cheap rattle can spray job, i can just gel coat the inside of the boat as well. I still want to put bed liner on the floor and seat, maybe not the railing now. I was thinking a full white boat might be cool, any opinions? It would seal the inside fiberglass inside better then cheap spray paint too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-Marine-Hi...83ad1d&vxp=mtr

The bed liner on the other hand cost more then the gel coat lol... So instead of a blanket coat on the bottom. Im going to be more just like a actual keel guard, cover the keels and maybe 2-3 inches on each side. Any part I feel would touch the ground, or be slid on. I would like to do a full bottom, but I dont know if a quart of it would go that far. Gallons start at about $70-$100, My main concern was just to reinforce the keels anyhow. Il use fiber putty to try and blend the seam, sand and gel coat the whole thing.

All in all I figure I will have about $120-$150 total investment into the nice, new, floating boat. Not that I wold ever consider selling this boat, it has sentimental value which is why I decided to dig out the bushes and give a new life. I remember being 10 years old fishing in this boat many times. What do these boats go for in decent and floating condition? Im a complete newbie in the boating world, just ball park is all. I figured it would be good info to know.

Also Im in WA state, my small boat doesnt need reg tag unless I go in federal waters. But I was thinking of getting one anyhow if its not too much, how much should that run me?

I forgot to mention I have a little old 7.5 GameFisher outboard two-stroke for it, is that enough to scoot this boat? I dont know boats but 7.5 hp doesnt seem like much.

 

[Woodonglass]

Here's my 2? on what I'd recommend. I'd use this to fill the big scratches and gouges...http://www.iboats.com/Evercoat-Kitt...79952589--session_id.650070295--view_id.38644 You want to use a dremel or a drill attached file to clean em out down to fresh glass and then clean with acetone prior to filling. Then sand em smooth and then use some of this...http://www.iboats.com/Marine-Premiu...579952589--session_id.650070295--view_id.3414 to do any final fairing and then after it's all cured and hardened final wet sand with 220-320 grit. Gelcoat is NOT that easy to deal with and is Pricey. I'd paint the boat with Rustoleum Pro Oil Based Acrylic enamel paint and use AE Hardener with it. This yields a High Gloss, Very durable finish. One Quart would allow you to put down 3-4 coats. Costs for paint and hardener would be around $50 bucks. I would then tape off Both Keels and coat them and ONLY them with the bedliner material to create the skid guards. We had a member do this on his 16" ski boat and it worked GREAT!!!! Your idea for using the Bedliner on the inside has been done before on other boats here on the forum. Some like it some don't.

Again that's my 2?! And that's about all it's worth!!!

 

[pckeen]

Ditto on the rustoleum - inexpensive and looks pretty good when it goes on.

The only other thing I would consider doing, given that your boat is putting on weight when washing is drilling a hole into the 'flotation chambers' - whether they are theoretically airtight chambers or foam core. If it is soaking wet, or hte chambers are full of water, then you have a boat that may sink when it gets flooded - and may not be safe. If the chambers are full of foam, the foam needs to be replaced. If they are airtight chambers, you'll want to let them drain, then reseal them all. I know that drilling into the boat might seem counterproductive, but seeing as you will be fiberglassing anyway, it is probably worth it.

 

[Sparksman]

Here's my 2? on what I'd recommend. I'd use this to fill the big scratches and gouges...http://www.iboats.com/Evercoat-Kitty...-view_id.38644 You want to use a dremel or a drill attached file to clean em out down to fresh glass and then clean with acetone prior to filling. Then sand em smooth and then use some of this...http://www.iboats.com/Marine-Premium...--view_id.3414 to do any final fairing and then after it's all cured and hardened final wet sand with 220-320 grit. Gelcoat is NOT that easy to deal with and is Pricey. I'd paint the boat with Rustoleum Pro Oil Based Acrylic enamel paint and use AE Hardener with it. This yields a High Gloss, Very durable finish. One Quart would allow you to put down 3-4 coats. Costs for paint and hardener would be around $50 bucks. I would then tape off Both Keels and coat them and ONLY them with the bedliner material to create the skid guards. We had a member do this on his 16" ski boat and it worked GREAT!!!! Your idea for using the Bedliner on the inside has been done before on other boats here on the forum. Some like it some don't.

Again that's my 2?! And that's about all it's worth!!!

Hey I appreciate the responses! So how durable is it, more so then the gel coat? This will be bank slid and set down frequently. Wouldnt paint be more prone to cracking and flaking though? As opposed to the gel coat being for flexibility with abrasion? I havent ordered yet, but durability is my #1 concern. I worry without a full and proper prep job the paint might not seal right and accel the flaking. I have some fiber putty,im going to try and make where it goes to the liner seamless.

I might have access to a gun to shoot it, ive been leaning towards that over rolling it on anyhow. I dont have those brands but similar products. I wish I could put more money and time into it but for now my main objective to to have structurally sound, completely weather sealed inside/out, and water worthy. Money is tight, and Im trying my hardest not to cut corners as is...

Ditto on the rustoleum - inexpensive and looks pretty good when it goes on.

The only other thing I would consider doing, given that your boat is putting on weight when washing is drilling a hole into the 'flotation chambers' - whether they are theoretically airtight chambers or foam core. If it is soaking wet, or hte chambers are full of water, then you have a boat that may sink when it gets flooded - and may not be safe. If the chambers are full of foam, the foam needs to be replaced. If they are airtight chambers, you'll want to let them drain, then reseal them all. I know that drilling into the boat might seem counterproductive, but seeing as you will be fiberglassing anyway, it is probably worth it.

I believe because I abnormally flooded the hauls while cleaning more so then the rain had just falling on it. I tipped it over and water came out, but Im making sure to allow it to completely dry before going forward. Its been in a barn for the last few days, and I wont make it out there until sunday to start dremeling the holes out and filling. I was told a while back my cousin took the boat as is down to the local lake a few miles down the road. It stayed floating, but did suck up water and had to be cupped out every so often. After the one days use it was put back and left several more years until I came along. At least I feel safe that it wont sink, even more so after I spend all this time and money fixing pretty much all its problems the proper way. Well, as close to "proper" as I can with current means. That word has many degrees I suppose.

------- I wouldnt blame half the people on here for thinking this is a lost case, waste of time. But I see it as Im at least giving it a new life for the time being. If I didnt save now in another few years of bushes who knows. There where two of them, there was identical livingston 8'. The bushes claimed that one for good, its rotted out. It's more that it gives me and my dad something to do together, fix, and then fish. Shore fishing just doesnt have the same appeal, nore luck with the fish. Also its preserving a piece of my childhood, it was a family boat for people. Be nice to just have it around in another 10 years or so.



.

 

[Sparksman]

The boat seemed way lighter then it ever has been to my knowledge. I made it out there today, I found foam under the seats on both ends. When I tilted it over small amount of water dripped out, after sanding around the holes I decided to let the boat sit another couple nights to further dry. There were about a dozen little holes on the inside. Im going to completely finish the inside first. Figured it was best when Im not worried about keels or new gel coat.


The rear had it the worst...


This was between the center and rear seat come together. Only holes so far I cant see the bottom.


Only two up front


Finally got a chance to glance at the engine, I think it may be seized... I ran out of daylight as soon as I got around to looking at it, Its two stroke, and the cord wont pull out. I wounder if it is the pulley/cord system thats messed up, I can hope!... Im about to clean up the oars too, maybe sand down and recoat. I need to wash, if there nice I may just polish the old wood then use a clear seal I have on hand.

 

[jbcurt00]

Sparkman, please check your PMs

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me (or any other Mod) at any time. thanks John

 

[Sparksman]

I have a two day weekend Im devoting to the boat. After I dremeled out, sanded, and cleaned up all of the holes to be patched, "pics in previous post". Today I used the fiberglass putty for filler. I applied a heavy first coat, sanded down, and then applied a light second when needed. Then again sanded down flush and smooth. Its not pretty to look at by any means, but its a work in progress. Tomorrow I will apply the glass sheets and resin to seal and reinforce. Im probably going to clean up some more of that blue gel coat around the holes. So the sheets at least have a little of that glass on glass action going on.

---How she sits





It was cold out, little thing makes a difference in the place.

 

[Woodonglass]

It is kinda important for that "Glass on Glass action" soooo, I'd recommend to grind it back about 3" all the way around so the new glass will have a good BITE into the old glass. Wash it down well with Acetone and you'll be good to go. A couple of layers of CSM and you'll be back in business. If you can find some of this....
and thin it with a bit of Acetone, it really will finish off the glass work and sands very easily.

 

[GA_Boater]

Lookin' better already, Sparks.

What Wood said about grinding back to get a good bite.

 

[Sparksman]

I got this bad boy fired up today for the first time in almost 20 years! It came with this boat when my uncle bought it when I was like 6. Most of the local places only allow electric trolling motors. There are a few big ones that allow if you want to drive 45 minutes to a hour or so. He never used it but once after he first bought, then it sat until I came decades later. He bought from his uncle, who bought both boat and motor new in 84'. It was seized after sitting in the garage all that time, and wouldnt budge no mater how hard you pulled. It had previously had penetrating oil sprayed inside a few days prior. Today I popped out the plug and sprayed some wd-40 down it in. I then removed the pull string assembly on top and put a socket right on the crank and pulled and pushed slowly increasing pressure. I felt it move about 1/4", then working that back and forth it freed up. I then filled the cylinder up with wd-40 and half way put the plug back in. I then hand cycled the engine until it was as Smooth as butter. I filled a garbage can up with water, and found some chainsaw gas thats mixed 50/50 2stroke. I did go out and find a new spark plug for it before starting, the old spark plug had seen better days. Now that I know it works great, Im going to repaint the whole thing for cosmetic appeal. Im not a full out restore because Im not sure how long it will last. It should have low hours, either way Im happy. Similar motors locally are $250-$500...






So I went ahead and removed the blue gel coat same as you guys recommended. The resin is wet in the pics, its all done on the inside

Woodonglass- The inside of these liveingston boats have the glass sheet, unsanded texture. Im only going to sand down the edges of the resin, and removed the mess. It will blend better visually as is, unless I wanted to sand all the blue off. Next i will be giving it a light coat of primer, then gel coat. Gel coat is in the mail, this will be the last update for about a week.

GA_Boater- Thanks, who knows maybe if I like it, I might want a bigger/faster one lol.

​

 

[GA_Boater]

She gonna be a nice, lil fishin' boat.

Good recovery on the Gamefisher. I don't know if it has an impeller, some are air-cooled, but it's worth checking. Hoses too. Sitting for 20 years doesn't help the rubber bits.

MBS often starts with a small putt-around and running out of room for the frosty libations.

 

[Woodonglass]

Woodonglass- The inside of these liveingston boats have the glass sheet, unsanded texture. Im only going to sand down the edges of the resin, and removed the mess. It will blend better visually as is, unless I wanted to sand all the blue off. Next i will be giving it a light coat of primer, then gel coat. Gel coat is in the mail, this will be the last update for about a week.

You're right, I forgot. Laying the CSM down will match the deck perfectly, and when you paint on the gel coat you'll barely notice the repairs.

 

[Sparksman]

​

She gonna be a nice, lil fishin' boat.

Good recovery on the Gamefisher. I don't know if it has an impeller, some are air-cooled, but it's worth checking. Hoses too. Sitting for 20 years doesn't help the rubber bits.

MBS often starts with a small putt-around and running out of room for the frosty libations.

Thanks, I was stoked when it fired up! I have to have a engine and trolling motor if I want to try and get on the big river. I have a 6.75HP lawnmower engine I was going to make work. Ive seen several conversions done online, and actually have been thinking of picking up a 10-15hp mower engine and converting for cheap power. For now I do plan on going over it better when I have the time. I seen someone on youtube testing same engine and they said to put in water. The prop is a little dinged up, how do I tell what size prop it uses? Looks like it knicked a rock on all 3 tips at some point. Just the tip, maybe 1/8"- 1/4" is missing, I have no pics at the moment of it, but Im sure it would work fin as is.

I work right on the Columbia River, and we have a private dock. That bridge is the I-5 that goes from Mexico to Alaska, it separates WA and OR. I know I can dock my boat at the dock for a few days at a time when I want to go fishing. I see fish boats all up and down this stretch of the river every day, so it must be a hot-spot. There is no real close boat launch, so being able to dock up at the fishing hole has to rank up there with cool work perks lol. I would have to tie up on the inside opposite of the cruise liner, its never used as its 15ft or less. Not deep enough for big boats, plenty for small ones.



I seen a Livingston out on the water today! Made me happy lol. My camera was zoomed in which is why it looks like I took the pic with a potato.




Another perk of working on the water is I get to see sun rises all the time. Here is a predawn pic from last month, the mountain to the right is Mt. Hood.

​​

 

[jbcurt00]

moving along nicely spark, reviving an old outboard is always a great feeling.

W the model # of your GameFisher OB, you should be able to find a parts manual for it. That will tell you the prop you need, and any substitute/replacement props that should work. You may want to pull it off before you order a new one, IIRC, there may be a plastic or rubber 'hub' inside the prop that may or may not come w/ or fit a replacement prop.

I recently bought a replacement prop for a 2.5hp Johnson and the new prop didn't have the hub, but did fit the hub of the old prop. So be sure it's in good shape (if it has one) esp if the new prop doesn't show it's included.

There are likely parts diagrams available online too, and that should allow you to figure out if it has an impeller or not.....

Nice shot of Mount Hood.