can plywood deck be patched?

Rbryan94

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Hi guys, I'm working on my 88 Chris Craft 290 Classic. I did some tapping on the stringers with a deep socket on the skin and it's a dead hollow sound. It's very difficult to access the stringers, I don't know how long they are or how bad they are but I expect them to be junk. When I shine a light I can see cracks where the stringer meets the hull towards the bow so I know it's going to be a big job. My question is when I start cutting the plywood floor to expose the stringers can it be patched in with new plywood. The existing floor is solid everywhere. If I have to replace the whole floor , I have to cut and remove galley seats, I have no idea how to remove floor in the shower, aft cabin or closets. I'm hoping for a simple solution but prepared for the worst. I was thinking maybe cutting the old and new on 45 angle and tabbing with epoxy and glass. Any thoughts
 

sphelps

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Well I would think if the stringers are bad you have no choice on pulling up the deck ..
 

Rbryan94

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Exactly however the beam is 11 ft. The plywood needs to be removed to expose the stringers. The tabbing around the perimeter is strong and intact. If I can expose the stringers without removing the entire floor that makes my life much easier. There isn't much on top of the stringers except plywood. I want to know if new plywood can be patched in.
 

Woodonglass

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Simple answer is "Yes". Pics will help us to tell you if it will be practical.
 

sphelps

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Yep .. you probably could install a pre sealed wood cleat under the edges of the old deck for support ..
 

Rbryan94

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Thank you for the response guys. That's going to make me job a lot easier.
 

Rbryan94

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It's going to be about a week before I can get some pics of what's going on. Looking forward to any help. Thanks again.
 

jigngrub

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In the end you will more than likely remove most or all of the decking for access and working room and once you see how well boat decking "patches" back you'll probably go back with all new.
 

Scott Danforth

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in boat restoration, what appears the hardest path is actually the fastest and easiest.

for example (actual issues encountered in these forums):
.... will work around the motor because I dont want to spend the hour to pull it....results in an extra 40 hours of work and you have to pull the motor anyway.
.... only need to pull the corner of the deck up and patch....after attempting to work around leaving half the deck installed to repair stringers for weeks, results in uncaping, full restoration of stringers, transom, and deck.

in your case, I would fully remove everything, remove the entire deck, and then attack the stringers.
 

zool

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Hi RB, on the bigger boats, its usually best to isolate any problem areas, and just replace whats bad. Sometimes that involves just a bulkhead and partial stringer, sometimes it never ends as u keep digging. If u click on the link in my signature, you will see how I handled a partial stringer, bulkhead, and transom replacement on a 28 with a 10' beam.
 

Woodonglass

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Yup, This ^^^ is True. I remember when OOPS was around. He did a LOT of repairs on the Big Boats and "Patch and Move On" was quite common on the Old woodies!!! That's why I was asking for pics!!!;) When I saw..."88 Chris Craft 290 Classic" I kinda figured this would be one of those!!!!:D:eek: They're a LOT different than our little lake boats.
 

sphelps

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Yes and from RB's earlier post he was just not wanting to cut all the tabbing and glassing around the hull .As long as there is no rot or delamination there's no reason why he couldn't do just that ..
 

jigngrub

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Hi RB, on the bigger boats, its usually best to isolate any problem areas, and just replace whats bad. Sometimes that involves just a bulkhead and partial stringer, sometimes it never ends as u keep digging. If u click on the link in my signature, you will see how I handled a partial stringer, bulkhead, and transom replacement on a 28 with a 10' beam.

That's one side of the coin, I'd consider it the "tails" side.

I'm more of the mind of, if I'm already in there and already have everything torn apart and exposed... I'm going to fix everything that needs fixing now and anything that may need fixing in the future. I just can't see digging into a boat and having everything apart and exposed only to do the minimum required to "get me by". The last thing I would want to do is to have to come back in a couple of years to tear out the new work I've installed (and new material) to do something I should have done the first time around... but we have seen several people do this on this forum and I can't see the logic behind it unless you just like tearing your boat apart and spending more and more money on it. I'd rather do it once and done... then enjoy it for many years without having to open her up again.



As far as someone paying me to "patch at" their boat, that's another story. If I couldn't convince them to go ahead and do it all at once, then if I had the time and they had the money I'd make a patchwork quilt out of it for as long and as many times as they wanted.
 

Woodonglass

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RB, Zool has owned, maintained and restored boats of your size and type. He KNOWS what HE's talking about and the problems associated with boats of this size and structure. As I stated earlier I learned a lot from OOPS but still don't feel qualified to offer you the kind of advice you need but am confident that Zool can. We have a lot of other members on the forum that own and operate boats of this size and they should be able to offer up some sage advice as well. Us Small Boat owners and restorers know how to do the small stuff but the 30 footers etc are a different breed. You just don't "Pop the Cap" and remove the Deck like you do on a 16 footer. At least that's not what I've been told and what i've seen on other forums where repairs on the big boats are being done. When your stringer is made of 3 inch thick solid mahogany or spruce and 12 inches tall and 30 ft long and it only has a 12" piece that's rotted, it makes sense to me that you would scab in a piece to replace it and carry on. When you have a 15 ft. living quarters and galley and the floor is soft you only want to replace what's needed. and NOT remove the entire structure to get to the entire deck. I get what you're saying. Again. Post up some pics so we can see what you're dealing with and those that have the knowledge and experience will be along to give you their wisdom. You'll be able to figure out who they are.;)
 

zool

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That's one side of the coin, I'd consider it the "tails" side.

I'm more of the mind of, if I'm already in there and already have everything torn apart and exposed... I'm going to fix everything that needs fixing now and anything that may need fixing in the future. I just can't see digging into a boat and having everything apart and exposed only to do the minimum required to "get me by". The last thing I would want to do is to have to come back in a couple of years to tear out the new work I've installed (and new material) to do something I should have done the first time around... but we have seen several people do this on this forum and I can't see the logic behind it unless you just like tearing your boat apart and spending more and more money on it. I'd rather do it once and done... then enjoy it for many years without having to open her up again.



As far as someone paying me to "patch at" their boat, that's another story. If I couldn't convince them to go ahead and do it all at once, then if I had the time and they had the money I'd make a patchwork quilt out of it for as long and as many times as they wanted.

Yes Jig, its the tails side, if tails were called.

These mid 80's aft sleepers were built with a 3 piece hull design, with a hull, cap, and tub, plus additional substructure for the aft sleeper. They resemble a split level house, but with ply framing. The stringers aren't continuous, but are tied to bulkheads up to 10' spacing. Its not just a matter of "while im in there" theres an order of the components, not unlike a puzzle, that makes up the structure. In my build, I was able to access two bulkheads, and 4 rear and mid stringer sections with just two cockpit cuts at the bulkheads. that allows access to the engine bay and fuel tank bay. I made a 3rd cut at the galley sole, for exploratory reasons, but the stringer sections towards the bow were good. If I needed, I could access all the stringer fronts with a v-berth removal. There are no areas that needed to be fixed, that I didn't do in a sectioned rebuild. To swap out the entire multi-level deck structure would require a trolley hoist, and large work space, which most pro shops, not to mention home builders ,don't have.

Now if the hull is foam filled, which most 80's afts of this size were not, then it depends on the extent of compromised foam...like in the case of GSPR and his Vic. Even if its filled, but not totally compromised, a repair of just the saturated sections is required.

Teds formula bulkhead repair thread is a good example of a proper repair, on a larger cruiser.

Bertram, and a few others, had the foresight to integrate removable cockpit decks, and salon decks, for access to fuel cells, and engines, but also gave access to the substructure...that's why u see a lot of "frame offs" on those models, most other 80's mids, are repaired or scrapped.

Most any pro shop will isolate the problem areas of a boat this size, and repair them, then get it back in service, only an amateur would tear out the entire structure, only to replace it all with near zero net gain in integrity, unless paid for a custom rebuild.

This is not a glorified row boat, its a wanna be yacht.
 
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jigngrub

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This is not a glorified row boat, its a wanna be yacht.

It doesn't really matter how big or small a boat is, we all know that they tend to rot from the bottom up and the inside out and once rot becomes noticeable it is widespread more often than not. Rot won't care if a boat is big and hard to access, it'll eat up a big one just as bad as a little one. And since these boats are big and hard to access I think it would be pretty common for an owner to ignore the rot and avoid fixing it because of the difficulty factor, and then when it does come down to time to fix it there's going to be lots of work to do... just like in GWPSR's thread.

How someone fixes their boat is their business, some are satisfied with patchwork... others are not. I was just saying I'm not a patchwork kind of guy and I wouldn't leave something that needed to be done undone just because it was hard to do.

I wonder how ol' GWPSR is doing? I guess he's freezing his tucas off like everyone else up there during this harsh winter, or he may still be in hibernation. Maybe he'll pop up and throw his 2 cents in.
 

zool

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It doesn't really matter how big or small a boat is, we all know that they tend to rot from the bottom up and the inside out and once rot becomes noticeable it is widespread more often than not. Rot won't care if a boat is big and hard to access, it'll eat up a big one just as bad as a little one. And since these boats are big and hard to access I think it would be pretty common for an owner to ignore the rot and avoid fixing it because of the difficulty factor, and then when it does come down to time to fix it there's going to be lots of work to do... just like in GWPSR's thread.

How someone fixes their boat is their business, some are satisfied with patchwork... others are not. I was just saying I'm not a patchwork kind of guy and I wouldn't leave something that needed to be done undone just because it was hard to do.

I wonder how ol' GWPSR is doing? I guess he's freezing his tucas off like everyone else up there during this harsh winter, or he may still be in hibernation. Maybe he'll pop up and throw his 2 cents in.

Patchwork wasn't my word, and theres a difference between leaving something unrepaired, and repairing something that isn't broken, regardless of size. with these boats, most rot is reserved for the inner stringers, not the outer, which are up on the chines and rarely sit in water, except for cases like GWPSR ;) , and even he only removed the cabin sole, not the cockpit or helm deck. Outer stringer repair involves removing the head, galley, and aft sleeper, and a serious talk with the owner about decommissioning, on an 80's rig.

And im sure hes freezing his tucas off, as I am, theres a foot of snow between me and the old gal right now :(
 
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kcassells

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Patchwork wasn't my word, and theres a difference between leaving something unrepaired, and repairing something that isn't broken, regardless of size. with these boats, most rot is reserved for the inner stringers, not the outer, which are up on the chines and rarely sit in water, except for cases like GWPSR ;) , and even he only removed the cabin sole, not the cockpit or helm deck. Outer stringer repair involves removing the head, galley, and aft sleeper, and a serious talk with the owner about decommissioning, on an 80's rig.

And im sure hes freezing his tucas off, as I am, theres a foot of snow between me and the old gal right now :(


Jiggy Jiggy! Zool...woke up this morning with charlie horses real early. Walked the house, legs were like 2x4's. Went away finally. But I needed something to put me back to sleep. So I read your thread up to pg. 75, great info and thread.....then I fell asleep.:sleeping: Of course the inspiration has me back into the ice cube from 20 to 80 in @ 15 min. and going back out to do some filaying. :confused:
Yes I walked the path in the snow I made earlier this week back to the boat.
 

zool

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Jiggy Jiggy! Zool...woke up this morning with charlie horses real early. Walked the house, legs were like 2x4's. Went away finally. But I needed something to put me back to sleep. So I read your thread up to pg. 75, great info and thread.....then I fell asleep.:sleeping: Of course the inspiration has me back into the ice cube from 20 to 80 in @ 15 min. and going back out to do some filaying. :confused:
Yes I walked the path in the snow I made earlier this week back to the boat.

Up to page 75?? , yeah, that will do it! lol...I havnt been back there in a while, except to check on the shelter, which is holding quite well this time ;) next week we're in the 50's they say, so ill have to get off my az soon, and get back to boat building :D...I feel too old this winter, and too busy.
 

kcassells

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Yup... those two alone items old and busy will definitely take a toll on ya.
 
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