Gelcoat headache

[Pound puppy]

So about 5 months ago I bought a 1980 Mako that had been refinished for the most part. I recently decided to rewire the entire boat since I was adding a bunch of new things (livewell, LEDs, radio, etc.) and the wiring that was in the boat already wasn't really up to par, along with the wiring I replaced and went with a bigger fuel tank. While I was working on all of this I got a wild hair and took off the grab rail after looking at pictures of other Mako 20b's, this is where the gelcoat problem comes in. I knew I had to fill the holes from the screws and re-gel but I got myself into a little more than I should have with this but too late now.

Now I have never done gelcoat before, but I have done a lot with fiberglass so I had a slight idea on it. Now I talked to Pat at fiberglass coatings which is the local shop for said jobs. I told him what I had and what I wanted the final (smooth shiny white finish like glass) to be so he set me up with everything that I needed to complete the task. I did everything Pat told me to do (mix gellcoat, styrene, sanding agent into a 5gal bucket and draw from that when ready to apply, etc.) I followed the directions down to a T. Problem I am having is that the gelcoat gators or crinkles in some areas almost instantly as I apply it and where it gators it doesn't setup underneath. I don't know what the material is that I am coating I can only assume that it is gelcoat due to its durability as well as some kind of paint since I am sure I am not the first person to refinish the casting deck. I sanded with 80 cleaned the surface with thinner a few times before applying the gelcoat. I even went as far as hitting the deck with a heat gun to make sure that it wasn't too cold for it to kick.

The first application we thought failed due to the temperatures (55-65) that day. But now that I have re-sanded and done a second application and have had the same result I have no idea what to do besides pull the boat into the center of the yard and light it on fire and go inside and watch TV.

Can anyone offer some kind of advice, I wouldn't be upset with just painting it at this point, just sand it smooth and paint it. Although I would like to get this done and done right with the gelcoat.I plan on refinishing the entire outside of the boat top to bottom at some point and at this time I am thinking about just paying someone to do that, as much as I cant stand that idea but I'll figure that out once I get through this issue.

 

[ahmincha]

Welcome pound puppy what size area are you repairing I would list exactly the directions you followed are you spraying,rolling it on the more info you give the better someone can help. Pictures help alot

 

[Woodonglass]

Yup, we're gunna need all the specifics. MFG of Gelcoat. specific measuring details, substrate details, amounts, pics, etc...

 

[Pound puppy]

I would say roughly about 100 sqft.

Steps that I am following are as follows-
Sand level with 80 grit
blow the area free of debris
wipe down with lacquer thinner
wipe with dry cloth to remove any other debris
wipe with lacquer thinner
take 1qt of mix (gelcoat, styrene and sanding agent) and att 15cc of MEK
stir 30 seconds in a 1gal paint can
pour the mix onto the bow and roll it out with a 7in roller
check thickness with gauge that he gave me
sit back and watch it kick while all of the bugs in the county get stuck in it trying to get high as a kite

Once complete I pull my hair out and have a strong urge to burn the boat down

I am unsure of the amount of styrene and sanding agent but he said to pour full contents of each into the bucket together and draw from that

 

[ahmincha]

I believe the styrene is for thinning I did not thin mine but I believe you only want 10% thinning . And I believe 1% mepk and the wax I used instructed the amount to use. As wog asked what brand of materials are you using

 

[jc55]

But now that I have re-sanded and done a second application and have had the same result I have no idea what to do besides pull the boat into the center of the yard and light it on fire and go inside and watch TV.

LOL! I'm a bunny stomper personally. I would start by wiping down with acetone instead, and using a second mixing cup to buffer your work from any unmixed portions of the first.

 

[Woodonglass]

I HIGHLY suspect your mix ratio is WAY off. I'd recommend Posting the MFG of the Gelcoat and then we can give you the proper Mixing instructions to get proper results.

 

[Pound puppy]

Apparently everything is either mixed and made in house or it is brought in and packaged in house. But this is the stuff I had mixed into a 5gal bucket.

 

[Pound puppy]

Apparently it isn't letting me post the pics. But the sanding aid is 10% wax solution total of 4oz. The styrene is 1qt, and the gelcoat is exterior gelcoat ultra ISO/npg white 1gal. All containers say FGCI and no other brand. But that is what I was told to mix together

 

[jbcurt00]

I would say roughly about 100 sqft.

Steps that I am following are as follows-
Sand level with 80 grit
blow the area free of debris
wipe down with lacquer thinner
wipe with dry cloth to remove any other debris
wipe with lacquer thinner
take 1qt of mix (gelcoat, styrene and sanding agent) and att 15cc of MEK
stir 30 seconds in a 1gal paint can
pour the mix onto the bow and roll it out with a 7in roller
check thickness with gauge that he gave me
sit back and watch it kick while all of the bugs in the county get stuck in it trying to get high as a kite

Once complete I pull my hair out and have a strong urge to burn the boat down

I am unsure of the amount of styrene and sanding agent but he said to pour full contents of each into the bucket together and draw from that

Apparently it isn't letting me post the pics. But the sanding aid is 10% wax solution total of 4oz. The styrene is 1qt, and the gelcoat is exterior gelcoat ultra ISO/npg white 1gal. All containers say FGCI and no other brand. But that is what I was told to mix together

In the 1st quote you listed MEK, not MEKP, a typo? You did use MEKP not MEK, correct? And you didn't list it at all in the most recent post...

Try using the metric system to measure for glassing and gelcoat, it'll save ya some brain strain...

At 15cc MEKP to 1qt Gel, that's nearly 1.6%, so if you used MEKP that's about right, IF you are above 75*F, and even then it'll take a bit to kick. For the 1st go round, you weren't warm enough for even 2% MEKP.

What temp was the 2nd attempt?

At 1qt styrene to 1gallon of gel, that's 25%, which sounds very high

 

[Woodonglass]

Well I'm NOT a Gelcoat Guru by any stretch of the imagination but I think I see your problem. WAAAAAY to much Styrene. A gallon of Gelcoat is approx. 4000cc of Gelcoat. (I always use the Metric System when measuring) It requires about 400cc of Styrene. A Quart of Styrene is 950cc, soooo You're about double that which makes the mixture way to HOT!!! How much MEKP did you use? I'd recommend only mixing a 1000cc of gelcoat at a time cuz if mixed properly you only have about 20 minutes before it starts to "Kick" on you.. You should use 100 to 150cc of Styrene then catalyze with 10 - 15cc of MEKP. Apply your first coat fairly thin and see what happens. I'm betting it'll be a lot better. You will get some "Orange Peel" but that's to be expected. That's the nature of Gelcoat. It's NOT like Paint. Once you get 3-4 coats on you WILL need to do a LOT of sanding/polishing to get the smooth High Gloss finish you're looking for.

 

[ondarvr]

You said you thought there was paint on the surface, if there is, it must all be removed, gel coat can't be applied over paint.

 

[Pound puppy]

The temp the second time around was about 70. And it doesn't seem to be an issue gel on gel so like ondarvr said I think it's a gel on paint issue after looking at it today. What can I do to get around this? I don't want to have to remove the surface to the original gelcoat or glass. That will take me forever unless I get a stripper and that can end up being a mess in itself. I also thought that that was too much styrene but I don't know a whole lot about it so I went with it.

 

[Woodonglass]

If you don't want to strip/grind the paint off the only alternative you have is to paint the boat. Gelcoat will NOT adhere to anything other than Polyester based products. If it were me...I'd Paint her. Is she a Marina Boat or a Trailer Queen?

 

[Pound puppy]

She's a trailer queen.

I am only taking care of the top cap, not messing with the bottom or the sides of it at this present moment. Which isn't near as much area to cover but there are a lot of curves that aren't quick and easy to sand.

If I paint it, what kind of paint should I use that will hold up for a while, not decades but at least a year or two until I stripe the whole thing down and refinish. As I said before my intentions weren't to get this involved with this project I just wanted to do a quick refinish of the casting deck due to patching the holes from the grab rail.

 

[ahmincha]

Pound puppy check out the link on the bottom of Woodonglass post paint your boat with tractor paint

 

[Woodonglass]

Get rid of all the crap you've put on sand her down as best you can, wipe her down with acetone and then do this...Paint Your Boat with Tractor Paint

 

[Pound puppy]

So I went down to the fiberglass store and talked with a few people including the store manager and came to a conclusion. No matter what I do unless I use house paint I had to sand it down to nothing and start from there be it with paint or the remaining gelcoat. So I did, I brought it back down to the original Mako gel and smoothed it out and ran a coat of straight gelcoat and hardner and had no issue this time. A few hours later I ran a second coat with the original stuff that had too much styrene as a top coat and so far without any sanding it has come out fantastic!!! Wish the person I had spoken with had given me the info of gel not being able to coat over anything but gel and resin. I am just hoping that with some sanding it comes out even better. Thanks for all the help folks, if this doesn't come out well I will def be painting it with your suggestion, thanks Woodonglass

 

[rickryder]

I'd love to see some pics of this

 

[Pound puppy]

I will be able to post some pics Wednesday, dang work gets in the way of my plans every time!!!