Peeling paint

produceguy

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You are a very talented, produceguy. Listen to Zool. :hail:He helped me paint my boat and it came out superb and has no flaws after a season out on the water.
Your boat looks awsome. Thanks for the props but I'd say I'm more creative than talented. Lol
 

produceguy

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The short of it is, auto clears don't hold up well in the marine environment, especially on the topsides. You will notice that most boat specific paints don't offer a clear, and most are polyester based. Poly paints are the most durable, with linear polys being the top, but they lack repairability, and shouldn't be cut, buffed, or waxed. Awlgrip and Sterling do offer a clear, but its rarely used on boats.

Auto base/clears offer repairability and such, but they are the least durable in the marine environment, and if they are used, its mostly on the hull sides from the rubrail to water line, over graphics.

Acrylic urethanes fill the void, they are almost as durable as LPU's, and are more easily repaired than base/clears. Most boat rashes, gouges, ect will cut thru the clear and the base, requiring repair of both layers, where AU's can just be sanded smooth, and touched up, they can also be cut, buffed, compounded so any runs, drapes, or other boo boos are easily repaired...you can also wet sand between coats if ur getting peel. Also, Acrylics in single stage look the most like factory gel.

They started to be used by boat techs so much, that Awlgrip released their own version of an AU, Awlcraft 2000.

The main advantage that the Polys have over the acrylics is they offer a brushing thinner, for roll and tip, which is popular in the DIY community, acrylics are basically spray only.

We see a lot of base boats dragged in here with peeling and crazing clears, that were added as a bandaid, to cover faded gel....they last about a year or two.
Looks like I'm going with AU.
Now what steps do I take to fix this mess? Sand it and then seal it and then paint.?
 

zool

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Yea, basically its a redo. Only you can tell what you have for a substrate now. If it were me, I would knock a few mils of that tractor paint (and flames) off, thicker isn't better on a boat, so taking the top layer off would be best. You should be able to tell if you have uncured paint or bad adhesion while your sanding.

I think you will be glad you sealed it 1st, and because you no longer need the clear system, those funds will cover the epoxy primer system. Since you just painted the boat, you should have a good handle on how much product you need, but ill post a list.

Products you need.

Omni mx190 cleaner (just pick up what they have, a gallon, or even a quart or so should do, it goes a long way)
Omni MTK Acrylic Urethane Single Stage
Omni MH167 fast hardener ( this is kinda temp specific, if its real hot, then the slow one may be better, but I don't know if its hot anywhere
right now :))
Omni MR 185 or 186, 187, 188-(this is definitely temp specific, the temp ranges for each are in the tech sheet)
Omni MP170 epoxy primer which is grey, theres also white or black, but grey is fine for blue paint.
Omni MP175 catalyst
The epoxy primer can be thinned with acetone if needed.

I would start off by using the mx190 before you sand. You can buy a few pack of those rags in a bag from home depot, or use the blue shop paper towels, that don't leave lint. I find the best way to apply it is in a spray bottle, like the orange ones from home depot. You just spray it on like windex, then wipe off with a rag, turning and replacing the rag frequently.

Use whatever paper you need to knock the old finish down some, then resand with 220. blow it off with some air.

Apply the mx190 cleaner again, right before youre ready to prime. At this point you wont be touching the surface with fingers anymore, if you have to, reclean that area.

Then just hit it with one coat of the epoxy primer, and two wet coats of the AU. follow the recoat, sanding, and tape windows in the tech sheets.
 

produceguy

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Thank you so much guys for all the info.
Zool, thank you for all the info and I'll post pics when I'm done but im sure I'll have more questions for you before I reach that point. Thank you again.
 

jc55

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Reading the primer tech sheet, pay attention to the "induction time". That's important and sometimes overlooked.
 

zool

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Thank you so much guys for all the info.
Zool, thank you for all the info and I'll post pics when I'm done but im sure I'll have more questions for you before I reach that point. Thank you again.

No problem, but im just curious, since you feel that you taped the 1st job prematurely, how come u decided to switch paints?...you can save some serious coin by just cleaning it, sanding it, cleaning it again, then hit it with another coat of the VS...you can pick up some Preps-all surface cleaner for like 20 bux a gallon, and be done with it....we know ur paint will stick to itself ;)

http://www.tcpglobal.com/KLE-GSW362...zfrYNJ8CM7wutpnGRGs4NxoCkLbw_wcB#.VG5_2bktDIV

unless youre out of paint or didn't like the product...

Fire away any questions u have anyone of us here will be glad to help...
 

kcassells

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Me dinks he just went with the best info he got after all the problems he has had and made his decisions based on your info. supplied. That's all.
With your follow up comment just now I'll bet he revisits his prior paint job now that he has your support there too! I'm with him...there is just so so many ways to fix/apply or do things that aren't always in BLACK AND WHITE.
BTW, gettin kinda late, shouldn't you be in bed?
 

kcassells

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Personally I copied and pasted your prior paint Modus operandi and saved it for review/study for when I get to that point.
Most Excellent. As is Wogs.
 

zool

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Me dinks he just went with the best info he got after all the problems he has had and made his decisions based on your info. supplied. That's all.
With your follow up comment just now I'll bet he revisits his prior paint job now that he has your support there too! I'm with him...there is just so so many ways to fix/apply or do things that aren't always in BLACK AND WHITE.
BTW, gettin kinda late, shouldn't you be in bed?

Nah KC, he already had the Omni sample, I just talked him outa the base/clear thing...he asked if anyone knew if the acrylic was safe to use over the alkyd....which I have concerns about, unless its sealed with the epoxy primer. Im just curious if he liked the vansickle, ive never used it....and if he did, saving some bux is always a good thing...personally, id use the AU SS, but I would have from the start ;)

Late?..im about to pop a cork and do some thinking drinking :D
 

Woodonglass

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Well, PG, I call VanSickle today and spoke with the Paint Tech guy. I explained your scenario and He said that with the temps you had you should have let the paint dry for 24 hours before taping. It should not peel after that if you use quality automotive striping tape. I also think that the VS paint will do the job especially with the added hardener...http://www.yourepair.com/310/how-to-understanding-automotive-paint-choices.html
 

kcassells

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Kinda like I said...Not so Black and White so I was trying to determine if thats where you were going. And yes I'm 1 Cork ahead of ya.
Only 1! I swear Officer.
 

produceguy

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No problem, but im just curious, since you feel that you taped the 1st job prematurely, how come u decided to switch paints?...you can save some serious coin by just cleaning it, sanding it, cleaning it again, then hit it with another coat of the VS...you can pick up some Preps-all surface cleaner for like 20 bux a gallon, and be done with it....we know ur paint will stick to itself ;)

http://www.tcpglobal.com/KLE-GSW362...zfrYNJ8CM7wutpnGRGs4NxoCkLbw_wcB#.VG5_2bktDIV

unless youre out of paint or didn't like the product...

Fire away any questions u have anyone of us here will be glad to help...

I liked the paint just thought I have to thin it to much to spray but then again I don't know if that's normal. The can says to thin 8 parts paint to 1 part thinner which wasn't the case at all
I read a lot of reveiws on tractor paint and although it's decent paint most of the reviews says it fades within a few years,especially without a clear coat.
I know now that boats really shouldn't have a clear coat and after all the work I've done on my boat,why not go with a better paint even if it cost a little bit more.
 

produceguy

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Well, PG, I call VanSickle today and spoke with the Paint Tech guy. I explained your scenario and He said that with the temps you had you should have let the paint dry for 24 hours before taping. It should not peel after that if you use quality automotive striping tape. I also think that the VS paint will do the job especially with the added hardener...http://www.yourepair.com/310/how-to-...t-choices.html
WOG sir you are AWSOME buddy. I don't blame the paint at all. Some where down the line I probably screwed something up.
I just thought I'd go with a better paint since all the work that's going into this.
Thanks for the link buddy.
 

jc55

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I shot my '55 Chevy with John Deere Blitz Black Alkyd enamel with hardener over PPG dp50lf. It indeed faded after a couple of months and was extremely hard to sand.
 

zool

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I shot my '55 Chevy with John Deere Blitz Black Alkyd enamel with hardener over PPG dp50lf. It indeed faded after a couple of months and was extremely hard to sand.

If I remember correctly, JC, yours came out so good, you didn't feel it necessary to cut or buff it at the end, just left it as sprayed....but the AU's sand real nice if needed, and they pretty much replaced the enamels on most shop shelves nowadays...The Nason u used is Duponts equivalent to PPG's Omni...
 

zool

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I liked the paint just thought I have to thin it to much to spray but then again I don't know if that's normal. The can says to thin 8 parts paint to 1 part thinner which wasn't the case at all
I read a lot of reveiws on tractor paint and although it's decent paint most of the reviews says it fades within a few years,especially without a clear coat.
I know now that boats really shouldn't have a clear coat and after all the work I've done on my boat,why not go with a better paint even if it cost a little bit more.

I hear ya, I just didn't want u to think I was steering u into anything, I was just steering u away from what I think is bad, and arming u with the knowledge to make the best choice ;)

BTW, you can thin alkyd enamels up to 25%...even slightly more if needed, just an FYI..u can also mix the thinners to control the flash..

Ive thinned rustoleum 30% so I could squeeze it out if a detail gun, with a 1.0 tip lol..no problems
 
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Woodonglass

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Yeppir ^^^ this B True. Thats why I like shooting the AE stuff. They're so versatile. You can mix and match em to the conditions and the equipment you're using and get em to do pretty much what you need em to do. They do fade just a touch but some wax and a buffer and you can keep em looking nice for years AND they're real easy to re-coat and touch up!!! But the best part for me since I'm a C.O.B. is they're CHEAP!!!! (but only in price);)
 
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