1983 Invader Floor Repair Support Needed - Take 2

kcassells

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I'm not sure I've ever seen a keel go to the underside of a deck. But I'm the noob again. Mine couldn't cause of lower floor elevations in the cuddy and a box/trough in the sole area. Just rides from front to gas tank area.
Be nice!
 

Woodonglass

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Depends on the design. Here's one just so you can see what I'm referring too...(and you thought you're boat was rotten!!!!):eek:
70072d1336006693-stringer-layout-274.jpg
If there's a ski locker, a below deck fuel tank etc... then the Keel board may just fill the recessed area and indeed not extend to the bottom of the deck. My previous statement might indeed have been in error!!! Good catch KC!!! Like I've said many times...I'm just an Old Dumb Okie trying to help when and where I can!!!!:D
 
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Rickmerrill

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Yea, I looked up the name for the area between the two bulkheads and it's official name is "agoodplace4rotterstarter". You "stink potters" don't know what a real keel is".
 

kcassells

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Depends on the design. Here's one just so you can see what I'm referring too...(and you thought you're boat was rotten!!!!):eek:
70072d1336006693-stringer-layout-274.jpg
If there's a ski locker, a below deck fuel tank etc... then the Keel board may just fill the recessed area and indeed not extend to the bottom of the deck. My previous statement might indeed have been in error!!! Good catch KC!!! Like I've said many times...I'm just an Old Dumb Okie trying to help when and where I can!!!!:D

Nope,...No dumb oakie are you! LOL! Thanks! Mine appeared to be @3" wide, under cuddy floor to just before gas tank,{halfway lenght of boat} made of a 2x4. New one going in as plywood construction.
 

Rickmerrill

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Hi Pita! Welcome aboard! When I removed my keel it was mush like most of my boats wood. But this pc in particular was like a carved 2x4x8 to fit into place as the keel.
I may be wrong but I understand that you should use a series of ply {more strength**to make the fit and scallop it to fit the contour. Ea. pc. should be sealed, then pb, then fitted and sealed with glass. I'm sure WOG or Rick will clarify this better.
Been ready to approach this myself so I'm gonna follow your thread. Thanks!

This brings up some interesting thoughts or maybe minutia that might be useful for Pita. I'll throw out some of my thoughts and everyone feel free to pick it apart.

Just to be clear I'm only talking about the two keel pieces (not the area around the drain pipe).

On using ply I'm wondering if it's worth the effort if what was there before turns out to basically be 2x4. I guess ply would be stronger, oriented vertically and Titebonded together (this is really a question)?

What would be an efficient way to build these things if using ply? Maybe figure out the angle, cut that angle on the bottoms, then come back and cut the top's to the right height before gluing? I'm no woodworker...

Once you have the pieces of wood ready here is what I think would be next:
Round off any sharp edges.
Saturate in resin and let it tack up.
Wrap in CSM.
To install lift them off the hull to avoid hard spots (just like on a stringer).
Squeeze PB in the gap.
Create fillets.
Glass in with two layers of 1708.

Have I learned anything over the past several months?
 

kcassells

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This brings up some interesting thoughts or maybe minutia that might be useful for Pita. I'll throw out some of my thoughts and everyone feel free to pick it apart.
Just to be clear I'm only talking about the two keel pieces (not the area around the drain pipe).
On using ply I'm wondering if it's worth the effort if what was there before turns out to basically be 2x4. I guess ply would be stronger, oriented vertically and Titebonded together (this is really a question)?
What would be an efficient way to build these things if using ply? Maybe figure out the angle, cut that angle on the bottoms, then come back and cut the top's to the right height before gluing? I'm no woodworker...
Once you have the pieces of wood ready here is what I think would be next:
Round off any sharp edges.Saturate in resin and let it tack up.Wrap in CSM.
To install lift them off the hull to avoid hard spots (just like on a stringer).
Squeeze PB in the gap.Create fillets.Glass in with two layers of 1708.
Have I learned anything over the past several months?


Hi guys,
Your concept is right on the money. If we're gonna use ply then I would use pb to join them. The question of is it worth it to go to ply versus a 2x4 is a great question. My Lazy
arse wants to go to a 2x4 but my damn brain says ply for strength. Everywhere I read says the Keel is the Backbone of the boat. As much as I Want to use a 2x4 my "come on" whisper in my head says ply.
Any other insights appreciated.
 

Woodonglass

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Here again, IMHO, I think it's a question of whether or not its structural. If the keel is more like a stringer then I'd recommend making it from plywood. If it's more like a filler for the indention in the hull then I think 2x material and PB is fine. Again, I AM just an Old Dumb Okie offering his Old Dumb Opinion and It's worth Every Cent that you pay for it!!!:D
 

kcassells

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Here again, IMHO, I think it's a question of whether or not its structural. If the keel is more like a stringer then I'd recommend making it from plywood. If it's more like a filler for the indention in the hull then I think 2x material and PB is fine. Again, I AM just an Old Dumb Okie offering his Old Dumb Opinion and It's worth Every Cent that you pay for it!!!:D

I gots to dink about it, as I just spilled my beer onto my cell phone ear pc!!!!!@!!!!!!! Ooo darn. Just reading, skimming, looking, I don't see how a keel would not be structural to the integrity of a boat. I'm a noob, that's been said but I consider it to be like a main part of the framework structure. It's the part of the structure that takes the bang/cut of the waves, water etc. It's a hard working part on a fiberglass boat. Mine is a deep V cuddy 22'+so the stress/impacts may be different from this particular forum.
 

kcassells

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Well I hope the ear pc. dries out. Pita, My apologies if my inputs/questions seem like a bump. This is about your boat.
 

Rickmerrill

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Mar 13, 2014
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Kcassells, I think this is one of those personal preference things and if if makes you feel good about your build you should go with it. There's a big difference in my mind between overbuilding a little and doing something dangerous like not replacing a transom you know is rotten (or not replacing foam). If Pita finds his keel(s) were made out of dimensional lumber and he wants to do it like it was I'm good with that too.
 

PitaBoat22

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Jun 20, 2009
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Thanks everyone for all of the thoughts….really helpful. I am consumed with work and kids' activities during the week, so only getting time on weekends to do this boat stuff and this coming weekend is out. However, taking the following Thur - Wed off so plan on really hitting it then. In the meantime, please, continue to talk amongst yourselves….I learn a lot either way :joyous:
 

Rickmerrill

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He sure did! I'm really hoping you don't have to find out - but I do want to help you with that engine pull paranoia! LOL!
 

PitaBoat22

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Jun 20, 2009
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Well, my daughter has been ill, so we decided to stay at home this weekend. So, I have been able to do a little work today. I took a little side road to address a couple of engine issues: an oil leak and a coolant leak. I will definitely want both taken care of before running the engine with new stringers, deck, etc. Removed the oil pan (probably hasn't been done….ever) and have been getting it sanded down, repainted and ready for new gasket once it arrives. Hopefully this addresses the oil leak. Then onto the coolant leak….and I'm pretty sure I know where that's coming from.

But….back to the reason for this thread. You'll recall I mentioned two pieces of wood used for the keel. I've removed the one that was in the back of the boat under the engine. I've posted a couple of pics below showing the wood and the glass that was covering it. Notice that it's simply a piece of 1x4 that's 30" in length….looks to be pine. It was not bevelled (?sp) in any way….just laid down flat across the center of the hull and glassed over. No fillets. No foam between the wood and the hull. The only obvious purpose it was serving (in addition to maybe providing some structural support) was to be what the bilge pump was screwed to. I am going to guess that the accumulation of oil between the glass and this wood it surrounded is what allowed this particular piece of wood to avoid rot.

I will remove the longer/skinnier piece of the keel tomorrow, so stay tuned.



 

Rickmerrill

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I had a much smaller version of the same thing for my bilge pump and it was saturated with oil and water too.
 
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