New Floor Board Design, & Materials

[Pusher]

Hi guys, I'm knew to iBoats. I just purchased a '71 Bellboy with a soft floor. I'm planning on replacing the floors this weekend and need to order supplies today.

Type: I am going with 3/4" Fir as I heard Fir is naturally resistant to salt water deterioration.
I heard pressure treated is bad as it is impermiated with oils so when I try to glass it it will De-laminate over time as the resins were unable to permeate the wood.
Should I use marine grade, or simply buy the cheapest sheet and coat it in plenty of resin?

Resins: I also heard poly resins were less desirable as they don't block mildew causing water particles.... would this really be an issue for floor boards? $35/gallon is much better than $60/gallon.

Top Coat: I saw the Epoxy 10x coating at Lowes for $65 @ 3 gals. I then read that the surface may be too rough, and again, that it may flake up over a short period of time. Does anyone have experience with this product?

Design: I am considering fiberglassing three floor sections individually. I know this would allow moisture between them into the hull, but then it would also allow the water to evaporate out, as well as allow me access to the hull if I ever wanted to inspect the condition, or replace a single sheet instead of the entire section. I imagine if I ever redid the floors in the future it would be much easier to address the specific issue board rather than the entire floor. I know some of the aluminum boats do this...Any suggestions here?

Style: The signature pale green of the bellbow's top deck is kindda undesirable to me at this point in its life. I was considering using a glossy gray top coat on the floors/inside side walls, and then use a flat dark-gray bed liner of sorts for the top.... Does anyone know of a good product I could use for this?

You can make all assumptions that I will prep properly, and keep things clean as I go.

Thanks everyone!

 

[jigngrub]

Post pics of your boat for the best help and more interest in your thread.

 

[Arawak]

I just purchased a '71 Bellboy with a soft floor. I'm planning on replacing the floors this weekend and need to order supplies today

Chances are slim that your troubles will end at the floor. Before you buy anything do the ripout and see what you have to work with. You may also be facing wet foam, bad stringers, bad transom. At that point you can decide whether you want to proceed or walk away.

Type: I am going with 3/4" Fir as I heard Fir is naturally resistant to salt water deterioration.
I heard pressure treated is bad as it is impermiated with oils so when I try to glass it it will De-laminate over time as the resins were unable to permeate the wood.
Should I use marine grade, or simply buy the cheapest sheet and coat it in plenty of resin?

Marine plywood is expensive, especially in 3/4" (that seems excessively thick?). However, in the long run it is sometimes cheaper. Fir plywood checks and needs a serious layer of glass over it to prevent this. With Meranti or Okume you can just roller a thin layer of epoxy over it to seal it. These woods are not as rot resistant as douglas fir and need to be sealed. But in many cases this works out cheaper (or at least no more expensive), and it's definitely less work. I've done it both ways and prefer the marine ply route myself.

Resins: I also heard poly resins were less desirable as they don't block mildew causing water particles.... would this really be an issue for floor boards? $35/gallon is much better than $60/gallon.

Polyester is definitely cheaper, but it's brittle and not ideal if just using as a sealant. Fine If you have cloth in it. I personally like working with epoxy better. Vinylester is another option, but I've never used it.

Arawak

 

[Pusher]

Chances are slim that your troubles will end at the floor. Before you buy anything do the ripout and see what you have to work with. You may also be facing wet foam, bad stringers, bad transom. At that point you can decide whether you want to proceed or walk away.

How much does it cost to haul a boat to the dump?

If that were the case, this would give me more reason to make the floor boards individual pieces, whether for near-term work or in the long-term. My budget will be more tertiary when I start tax season, so I could move on to the stringer and transom in the spring. The cost wouldn't be bad for these items I imagine (?), just time intensive....?

Marine plywood is expensive, especially in 3/4" (that seems excessively thick?). However, in the long run it is sometimes cheaper. Fir plywood checks and needs a serious layer of glass over it to prevent this. With Meranti or Okume you can just roller a thin layer of epoxy over it to seal it. These woods are not as rot resistant as douglas fir and need to be sealed. But in many cases this works out cheaper (or at least no more expensive), and it's definitely less work. I've done it both ways and prefer the marine ply route myself.

I would much prefer this option as well (marine ply), but the budget doesn't allow for an $80 increase without cutting corners elsewhere (got a price quote an hour ago). Budget aside, if I would be redoing floors in 5 years anyway, then it would make sense to splurge on this item. If I roll both side of the plywood in poly resin then lay the floor down with fiberglass matt on top would this be sufficient protection, or am I polishing a nugget at this point?

Polyester is definitely cheaper, but it's brittle and not ideal if just using as a sealant. Fine If you have cloth in it. I personally like working with epoxy better. Vinylester is another option, but I've never used it.

I'll be using a fiberglass matt on the top side... sorry, forgot to mention that.

 

[Woodonglass]

First off, Welcome to iBoats!
Second, I'd advise you to slow down a bit. You need to thoroughly inspect your boat and ascertain exactly what all is good and bad about her so you'll know exactly how to proceed. iBoats IS the very best and most knowledgeable place on the internet for boat restoration but it's only as good as you make it. If you go to fast you're bound to miss something and mistakes are usually costly in time and money. As stated, Pics always help us to help you so get some pics of the inside and outside of your boat from all angles so we can see what you're working on. Every boat and situation is different but since a lot of us have been down the road a lot of times we can see things in pics that you will miss and we can help you NOT make mistakes. Without the pics we can't do that. A free Photobucket account is the best way to get your pics posted. Copy and paste the IMG Code directly into your iBoats thread.

 

[Pusher]

Is there no way to upload pictures from a harddrive? I tried posting from my phone and from a PC...

 

[Rickmerrill]

Unfortunately, no, not since the recent upgrade. It only takes a few minutes to get the photobucket account setup and start uploading pictures there. Then it's just a copy/paste.

 

[jbcurt00]

Yes there is but a required forum software update is causing problems that prevents direct uploads currently, normally, yes you could. But currently, no, not reliably

 

[Arawak]

Pictures would help. As WOG says, you are probably rushing this. Been there, know the feeling. Many of us here do

If you're in a rush and you don't want to do it properly then just cover what you have with 1/2" exterior ply, glue on some outdoor carpet and go boating. It will probably out last what's underneath. Do you really want to spend hundreds of dollars and a couple weeks slapping something over potentially rotten wood only to tear it off next year? If your stringers and transom are bad, and it's better than even odds they are, this repair will not last 5 years you mentioned.

Strongly urge you to at least take drill samples of your transom and stringers.

 

[Pusher]

My brother redid a transom last year. Yes it was time consuming, but it didn't seem especially expensive. I build my own steelhead/salmon/halibut rods and find it soothing. Is the concern here the time spend replacing stringers, or the COST of replacing them?

Also, were there any thoughts for or against using separately glassed boards versus one solidly glassed board? I am curious why some manufacturers do it and others don't.

 

[jigngrub]

My brother redid a transom last year. Yes it was time consuming, but it didn't seem especially expensive. I build my own steelhead/salmon/halibut rods and find it soothing. Is the concern here the time spend replacing stringers, or the COST of replacing them?

Also, were there any thoughts for or against using separately glassed boards versus one solidly glassed board? I am curious why some manufacturers do it and others don't.

Time and money will add up on a boat resto, not only will you need the materials... you'll also need incidentals and paraphernalia that will add up.


Not many (if any) fiberglass boats are built with individual glassed panels or removable decking, the deck is usually designed as a diaphragm that holds the boat together tying the sides of the hull to the deck for strength.

Removable decking is an aluminum boat trait that lots of "glassers" would kill for.:laugh:

 

[Arawak]

My brother redid a transom last year. Yes it was time consuming, but it didn't seem especially expensive. I build my own steelhead/salmon/halibut rods and find it soothing. Is the concern here the time spend replacing stringers, or the COST of replacing them?

I just don't get why you'd put good materials and effort into this boat only to pull it all out again soon. It's like reshingling a sagging roof.

Also, were there any thoughts for or against using separately glassed boards versus one solidly glassed board? I am curious why some manufacturers do it and others don't.

Ok, jigngrub's reply makes me understand what you meant about separate deck boards. As he points out, on most of these boats the floor is structural. I think in order to do what you propose, you'd need to put in some bulkheads every few feet. But without photos it would be hard to say.

 

[Pusher]

Not many (if any) fiberglass boats are built with individual glassed panels or removable decking, the deck is usually designed as a diaphragm that holds the boat together tying the sides of the hull to the deck for strength. Removable decking is an aluminum boat trait that lots of "glassers" would kill for.:laugh:

Well that tells me I better get the floor boards flushed right up to the edge of the old board remaining so the tie-in isn't in the fiberglass alone. Thanks JignGrub!

 

[sphelps]

Jigngrub is right about glassing the deck in solid . If it was glassed in originally it needs to be glassed in again . You could just add inspection hatches if you want ..
Btw , the tin guys like the removable decks so they can count all the leaky reevits !

 

[Pusher]

I did per all of your advice and glassed everything in. I am glad too because I never thought of the smell halibut fluids would make under my floor boards. THANKS everyone. I have another question. I feel I should do two layers of mat but am closs to tapped on my budget for now and only have enough glass for one layer. Is tqo layers appropriate or can I do one and coat over with a floor sealer?

 

[Pusher]

If two is necessary, I'll do the one layer now and a second in a few months.

 

[Woodonglass]

What kind of resin and what weight of mat are you using?

 

[Pusher]

Sorry, should have clarified that.
I am using a poly-resin and it looks to be 6.5oz mat.

I like the Kiwigrip but the price of Interdeck is appealing (Looks like iBoats sells it). Can I get some COMPARATIVE feedback on these two systems?

 

[jigngrub]

Btw , the tin guys like the removable decks so they can count all the leaky reevits !

... and the glassers want a removable deck so they can watch their stringers turn to garden mulch.:laugh:



One layup on the decking will be better than nothing, you may want to go a little heavy on the resin. One layup won't be as durable or as long lasting as 2 will be. I suggest laying up what you have and then waiting until you have more money for the other material, or layup and put down a thin finish that will be easy to remove so you can sand it off next year and put down another good second layup.... but I personally would wait for the money and do it all at the same time with a good deck finish and no work in the future except for hauling in fish from the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Woodonglass]

There's no such thing as 6.5 ounce Mat. there's 6.5 ounce cloth but with polyester resin you can't use cloth without chopped strand Mat first. what brand of resin are you using