What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

[flipbro]

Today i thought i would shoot the primer on my 1984 20 foot wellcraft. well i sanded with 220 then 600 then wiped with acetone then wiped with wax and silicone remover same as i have on many vehicles. Well when i shot the primer it fish eyed every where so i stopped let that dry then sanded and wiped the hole boat again. mixed up more primer started to shot it again fish eyes!! So my question should i be wiping the boat with some thing else? Or is it possible that the gel coat has absorbed 30 years of wax and is on paint able? Please any and all advice is needed I tried 3 different spots and they all fish eyed:mad-new: By the way im doing a base coat clear coat and have painted many cars including the fiberglass body of my 78 corvette and never encounter anything like it!!!

 

[Ned L]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

I feel your pain, sorry I don't have anything to suggest other than to say that it does sound like you are fighting silicon somehow. ... Good Luck.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

What Primer? In the past I've had "Bad Primer" do that to me. Old timer taught me this trick...wipe down with 50% Rubbing Alcohol and 50% water. Then add 10% Ammonia and wipe again. Then a final wipe with clean water. Re Shoot. If it still fisheyes I'm betting Bad Primer. Try shootin some plain ole' Rattle can primer and see what happens.

 

[flipbro]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Ned thanks for the good luck! Wood the primer is left over from a truck i just painted about 3 weeks ago and was fine. I also grabbed a ratal can it did the same thing. I will try the 50/50 mix with alcohol

 

[Fastatv]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Today i thought i would shoot the primer on my 1984 20 foot wellcraft. well i sanded with 220 then 600 then wiped with acetone then wiped with wax and silicone remover same as i have on many vehicles. Well when i shot the primer it fish eyed every where so i stopped let that dry then sanded and wiped the hole boat again. mixed up more primer started to shot it again fish eyes!! So my question should i be wiping the boat with some thing else? Or is it possible that the gel coat has absorbed 30 years of wax and is on paint able? Please any and all advice is needed I tried 3 different spots and they all fish eyed:mad-new: By the way im doing a base coat clear coat and have painted many cars including the fiberglass body of my 78 corvette and never encounter anything like it!!!

Might have been a better idea to thoroughly scrub the boat down with dawn dish washing liquid ( or similar ), and wiped down with acetone prior to sanding as the sanding prior to scrub/wipe down seems to further embed the silicons into the finish. You might try another wipe down with the wax/silicon remover, then add the prescribed amount "fish eye preventative" to your primer, then try it again. The fish eye preventative be purchased at any Auto paint supply store. Hope this helps in some way. Rick

 

[GT1000000]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Just another thing to keep in mind...only because it has happened at our shop...
Have you used any type of spray lube, like WD-40 or some kind of tire shine, like Armorall...in the vicinity before spraying...???
If the breeze is right, that stuff gets air borne and causes havoc on paint finishes that are getting sprayed on...
Best of luck sorting it out...

 

[gm280]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Hope it isn't coming in with the air supply. Sometimes compressors leak oil into the air supply... I'd use a water/oil trap at the gun.

 

[Rickmerrill]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Man, some good advice here definitely some form of contamination. I posted similar ideas earlier but somehow it didn't post. I'm only internet trained - restored/painted one VW so what do I know... I washed with soap & water then acetone before sanding (both are solvents that dissolve different things) and wipe in one direction with a clean part of a rag each swipe - never go twice with the same piece of cloth. Since the surface is contaminated all I can think of is more careful cleaning with several solvents, lots of clean rags and maybe another light sanding in between cleanings. As they say the prep is the most important part - you already knew that so do some small samples with the rattle can until you know it's no longer contaminated before you load up the whole pot again. Good luck, I'm sure you'll figure it out!

 

[Rickmerrill]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Oh, and when you do figure it out please let us know how you eliminated the fish eyes.

 

[flipbro]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Wow all good suggestions Thanks! There is one thing that sticks in my mind from what GT said! Last summer a friend of mine suggested using mothers tire shine on the faded gelcoat to bring it back to a shine witch i did and it looked great for a day lol any way i wounder if that could be the issue? You would think the sanding and scrubbing with solvents would have taken care of that? Boy o boy an easy job turned bad lol Thanks for the input men!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

I had my compressor set up with two taps, one thru a lubricator for tools and one dry for painting. made the mistake once to try to paint with lines that had lubricated air in them. :facepalm:

did you sand down past the oxidation layer? I probably would have used 120 grit followed by 180 grit then a high-build primer followed by a wet-sand, then paint. years of waxing along with any oxidation pores would be a bit of wax to remove.

if you have a lot of issues, are they isolated to a specific area, or the entire surface?
could someone have covered the boat in vaseline at least once in its past in attempt to shine it up?

I have always done a wipe with lacquer thinner or acetone, then with wax and grease remover for fish eyes when painting cars.

the Mothers Tire Shine has a lot of silicone in it. it will be difficult to remove

 

[pauloman]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

usually a solvent wipe down just moves the wax etc around and doesn't really remove it.

 

[flipbro]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

My compressor has filter at tank and 1 at the gun! The issue shows its ugly face all over the hull (Even with a rattle can). I notice it even cases the acetone to fish eye when i spray it on with a spray bottle very bizarre. As for vasilean i have no idea if that was ever done i waxed and sprayed with mothers tire shine is all the history i aware of.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

did you sand down past the oxidation layer? I probably would have used 120 grit followed by 180 grit then a high-build primer followed by a wet-sand, then paint. years of waxing along with any oxidation pores would be a bit of wax to remove.

I re-read your original post and Scott makes a LOT of sense here. 220 and 600 grit sanding on Gelcoat MIGHT not have been aggressive enuf!!! Gelcoat is very porous, and depending on what all has been used in the past and how thick the gelcoat is, the contaminants could be deeply buried and leeching back to the surface. As pauloman suggests the solvents are just smearing them around. This IS why I'm so very much against using Vaseline to Shine a boats oxidized surface. Once it gets into the pores of the Gelcoat, it's almost impossible to get it out, and trying to Paint over it is IMPOSSIBLE!!!! Sorry mikdee!!!

 

[gm280]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

WOW a serious problem if your acetone fisheyes. Not knowing and better, I'd say more sanding until it stops... Not what I would like to hear, but nothing else seems to be working... You have to post your efforts and what it takes/took to stop the fisheyes. I'm surely interested in this now!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Sooo you are saying you Waxed and Sprayed the Gelcoat in the past with Mothers Tire Shine Product? And now to prep it for paint you sanded with 220 and 600 grit and then wiped down with acetone and the silicone remover? Uhmm, I'm bettin all the money I got, (don't get excited, that's only 37??) that THIS is the issue you are having!!! As I stated before Gelcoat is very porous and that stuff has soaked deep into the pores and the acetone has broken it down and smeared it all over the hull. I fear you're in for a LOT more sanding with 80 grit!!! The Alcohol Cleanup I suggested MIGHT help but I doubt it. That Tire Shine Crap is some BAD MOJO stuff!!!!!

 

[flipbro]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Ok seems my only options are Re sand with 80 Then 180 Then a good wash with dish soap (Do i mix it with water)? Then whip with 50/50 alcohol -water solution then wax and silicone remover and retry to shot some primer. If this dont work it may be time to break out the rollar and rustoliam paint with hardner i bet it will stick lol! If not look for the big black cloud of smoke over southern Ontario:laugh: Yep i had a feeling when i used it it would come back to haunt me. But it looked real good for a day Dame friends:facepalm:

 

[flipbro]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Well sanded and sanded with 120 then whipped with 2 clothes and still fish eyes not as bad but still enough i dont care for! I tried some industrial paint and a roller in spot and it sticks fine so i thinking i my try this rolling and tipping method ive heard about. Flat black from the rub rail down and the cap a gloss white. Is it possible to get good results with this method?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

Sure is. Get the High Density foam rollers. Roll on thin coats and Roll very lightly. You'll get the hang of it and can get almost spray gun results

 

[jimmy wise]

Re: What am i doing wrong! (Fish eyes in primer)

another thing is use a harsh soap like tsp use a scuff pad. rinse well. when you are wiping use wax and grease or prepwash but putiton with one rag and wipe off tell dry with another do it twice....jjimmy