93 Crownline 250; she 'was' dirty, but now shes clean and SPLASHED!!

[25thmustang]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Wow quite the mess, but you seem to be well on your way! My old 27'er had some rot and I called it quits long before where you are now.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 "The not so dirty" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 "The not so dirty" resto/refit thread

Well, well, well...
Looks like this one is going to get the full treatment...well, at least enough to make it seaworthy, again...
Sorry to see that the second one wasn't the charm you'd hoped it would be, but from the looks of it you are ready, willing and quite able to make it solid once again...
Plus, especially when it comes to old boats, I wouldn't put too much trust in the old adage that the "third times the charm"...know what I mean...
Keep up the progress on tearing out the good, the bad and the ugly...and before you know it you'll be putting in nothing but the good...
Happy Sunday!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

I don't see this boat as being any dirtier than the Bayliner, I think there was just more denial with the Bayliner.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Crazy pills? hmm... maybe, ya.. oh.. drugs, gota have drugs! :laugh: At least I have access to everything in this boat.. aside from a minor cut in the helm floor, there isn't too much i cant get to while leaving her 'intact'

I don't see this boat as being any dirtier than the Bayliner...

Oh, it is, honestly much worse structural rot in this one... at least the cabin and head are fairly clean..

I think there was just more denial with the Bayliner.

Perhaps some, but the Bayliner really just had TOO many issues in the end, with the OMC motor turning out nfg being the last straw so to speak.. I have heard this run, seen it floating (despite all this rot) and in theory after I put the time and $$$ into it i could STILL turn a small profit if I sold it... or have a boat i can enjoy and KNOW it is solid and safe.. so I'm still ahead with this one I think.

Got the tank drained and pulled out of the boat today, picked up some 3/4" ply, but it was just too cold to do much else.. :facepalm: Windy and 6 degrees C on may 4... what the effff mother nature?!? Took tomorrow off work, hoping for better temps and try to get most of the rot and dirt out, and make some measurements/plans before i grind the remnants of her skeleton away..

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

PROGRESS!! DIRTY STINKING PROGRESS!! ahem... I am quite sick of dealing with other peoples crap though... Pulled most of the rot and yuck out today, got to the waste tank and figured meh, no big deal... theres some in it, but i'll be fine.. i thought the one remaining screw was holding it in position for the most part, but turns out GRAVITY was keping that tank there.. as the gauge said E but in fact was BROKEN and the stinking thing was FULL!!! So my first try at lifting out of the boat I almost dropped it.. which stirred things up quite a bit I suppose, and the plastic bag wrapped around the vent tube just didn't cut it... uke: was all I could do to get it back on the rotting shelf and balanced again...




So I screwed two straps and wood to it, and almost broke my back lifting it out of the bay and onto the helm floor... dragged it out on a board and down the steps to the driveway, then my buddy showed up... there's a good friend, he actually helped me lift in into a wheel barrow, drag it to the other side of my house, DIG UP my septic tank lid, and he even held the garden hose to it while i dumped it! I defiantly know who to call if I ever need to move a dead body...

I still have more rot and eww to remove, but I'm getting there... might be grinding by weeks end if the weather holds up.. waste tank out, of COURSE there is waterlogged foam in there.. :facepalm:








more pics next post....

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

These two areas that were foamed are so small, I really cant see them adding ANY floatation value to the boat... and there is very little structure to them, I just cant see the purpose of it, aside from 'code' of construction... The foam came out in mostly large chunks, completely saturated and there is standing water in those two rear sections.. (a beer can was actually floating in one for a while today...)




The port stringer had a bit of rot starting, so I cut it back to good, although it is not attached very well anymore, almost all the way up to the cabin/bow..



this is my 'reconstruction' of the starboard stringer after heaving the three pieces out of the boat.. No tools required in fact, just pulled them out with my hands.



Port side is pretty well cleared out now, just need to finish the rest of the tear out tomorrow on the other side and chew out the first few inches of the port engine mount (its a bit soft for my liking) and the remnants of the starboard cabin stringer.... and I think the big nasty grinding session is going to happen soon...



so I sat down for a rest in the v birth and took one last pic for the day... its very 'open concept' at the moment.. :lol:

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Wow . . . I am amazed at the rapid progress that you are making. Those engine mount stringers look pretty dark . . . I am wondering if those, along with the engine, need to come out. I don't see that boat as having enough structure originally, so maybe you could beef things up on the re-build.

Anyway, I am glued to my seat watching your progress. Enjoying the pics, keep 'em coming. :thumb:

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Wow . . . I am amazed at the rapid progress that you are making...

Ya well, I sort of have a bet going with a friend as to weather or not this thing could be floating again by mid June.. one of us is going to owe the other a case of beer :lol:

Those engine mount stringers look pretty dark . . . I am wondering if those, along with the engine, need to come out. I don't see that boat as having enough structure originally, so maybe you could beef things up on the re-build....

ya, they are a bit wet, but still very solid.. my plan at this point is to maybe cut them back a few inches, and then leave it for now. Fix the rest forward, beef up a few areas in the process, and run the boat. Maybe pull the motor at the end of the season and re-do the mounts if I really like the boat and want to keep it for a while. I dont consider it perfect, but should be 'safe' to run as it is for now anyway. The motor did not rock or shake at all when i heard it running, and the core samples I drilled below the engine mounts were decent wood shavings, unlike the DIRT everything else has mostly turned to.. And just think, as it WAS, someone ran this thing, likely for the last few years totally unaware of how bad the thing was rotten! :faint2:

Heading back into the yuck shortly, maybe have some more pics to post later on

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Well its not so much yuck anymore.. shes gutted out pretty good now.. got it down to the hull for the most part with the trusty sawsall and a hammer and chisel.. did a sweep out, and need to buy a new shop vac tomorrow as mine has given up the ghost after 8+years of house renos, garage/shop work, and boat repairs..... after that though, I think I'm ready for a dusty nasty grinding session.. The structure in front of the head and the rear wall/bulkhead is still in good shape, so it's holding it all together at the right height for now. Plan there is to to a two part stringer rebuild, so I can get to the back of it to tab to the hull. First pieces will be about 3-4" high, with a step in the two 3/4" pieces, so after its glassed and dry I can fit the top section in, pl, and glass over the whole thing. I realize there will be some secondary grinding, but I want to make her as solid as I can and I figure if I CAN get to the back of the stringer, why not.. ?



The port side stringer is going to stay as it is, just a grind and proper glass job in the inner of the cabin. there was a perfect overlap/sistered piece i removed in the aft, so it will be fairly easy (i figure) to re glass what is left to new and carry on to the rear, with some modification from factory design mind you. looking at it now, I think I'm going to move the fuel tank about 6" into the aft to give a small step area in front of the motor for maintenance access, and it will also move that weight forward slightly in the hull, along with water and waste tanks.. might make a difference, who knows right?



Got all the wet foam out and chipped the rest of the rotten poo wood out in the engine bay, also ripped out the glassed down board for the rear bilge pump.. :facepalm: not intentional, just wanted to remove oil soaked and old looking pump.. oh well, one more board to glass...





The thin pieces on either side of the motor are the ledge for the shelves that hold batteries, water tanks,trim pump,etc and there was nothing further out on the chines..it was just glassed to the outer hull where it meets the lower... but I plan on adding one all the way forward to the aft cabin bulkhead, as I will need some extra support for the fuel tank the way I'm planing on rebuilding things... also going to forget the foam I think, and drill drain holes at the transom. I have seen many boats this size and bigger and that is exacty how they were built.. its just a shelf, no foam.... opinions welcome in this area though..

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

I figure now is the best time to install a new rear bilge pump anyway, as well as change belts and raw water pump/impeller... i will never have this much access after shes put back together :lol: got a bit of cleaning to do in the bilge as well...



funny how you can see straight through the boat currently... there really isn't much to these things...



And again, a shot from the v birth back... I'm trying to take all my pictures from roughly the same angle and height, so in the end I can look back through the stages of the rebuild, and see it start to finish... figure it might come in handy if I ever sell it as well. :laugh:

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

The progress is impressive. Yup, many boat are fairly flimsy when you get a change to actually look at what went into them, like you are doing. Structural foam (like 4 lb/cubic foot) helps in that regard, so that would be your consideration for foam. It does not look like they used much foam throughout the boat, only in a few places.

Many boats that 'we' see on the restoration forum are for the older design where the floor is bonded/fastened to the stringer grind and tabbed into the sides of the hull. Your boat (and my boat) are of the newer 'clamshell' design where the hull and the cockpit are more singular large pieces, bonded at the rubrail.

You might see some opportunities to strengthen the structure as you go through it.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

...

You might see some opportunities to strengthen the structure as you go through it.

Yup.. been planing it out a bit, this is a rough sketch of my idea.. original in black, red is what i'm thinking. The main stringers are 9" high, made from 2 pieces of 3/4" laminated/stapled together. I'd like to drop the floor in the aft a bit, 2-3" i think, and to make up for some loss of strength I am thinking of tripling up the main stringers in there, and cutting down but also doubling the outer most ones (they are only one piece of 3/4") AND carrying them all the way back to the transom, which they did not do before. There was nothing under the tank there, or further back under the rear shelves. The other reason I want to triple the main stringers from the aft back is because of the fuel tank... they notched them out to fit the tank down low as possible, only leaving them 3" high underneath... :faint2: and with almost no other support, aside from the bulkhead which was very 'lightly' attached to the boat.. (you can see the little 12" long single layer tabing on the hull sidein the pic..) I'll bet they took a pounding.. A 1/4 tank of fuel and it was an almost impossible thing to lift out... imagine FULL of fuel, smashing through waves at 40mph.... The worst of the rot WAS in fact directly under the tank, and the boat also had very poor drainage in that area, which i plan on changing as well. Instead of a sealed plywood v shaped 'floor' for the tank to sit on Im thinking 4 good heavy stringers, with a 2-3" 'pad' on them to sit the tank on, then strap it down to them via the bulkhead that i will actually glass to the hull and stringers, and to the lower bulkhead i will add. Likely end up with an extra bulkhead or two in the engine bay/tank area as I dont see it being tough enough as built by the factory... but, ideas and opinions welcome as always

 

[greenbush future]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

I've never seen a project this extensive, W/O taking your engine out and completing the repairs all the way to the back. To put this much effort into making it safe, then eventually needing to tear the power plant out to repair wet mounts and perhaps transom moisture issues, seems like a band aid. Based on how hard you work, I bet you could remove the power and outdrive in one day. It would make your project so much better and easier to finish. While you saw the motor run, that doesn't mean it will run well under load, unless I missed that part of the sea test? Have you done a good assessment of the engine? compression, and how about the outdrive? You have some serious motivation, but what if the engine doesn't perform as it should? For the small amount of effort it would take, it might be a good move if you're committed to getting her sea worthy. In for a penny, in for a pound!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

^ +1

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

For some reason, I cannot get the picture attachment in the recent post to open . . . does not seem to be 'click-able' :noidea:

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

For some reason, I cannot get the picture attachment in the recent post to open . . . does not seem to be 'click-able' ..:

ya.. i dono... its all messed up and blurry on my computer (the original pic) ill have to re do that one..

I've never seen a project this extensive, W/O taking your engine out and completing the repairs all the way to the back. To put this much effort into making it safe, then eventually needing to tear the power plant out to repair wet mounts and perhaps transom moisture issues, seems like a band aid. Based on how hard you work, I bet you could remove the power and outdrive in one day. ....

Well the strange thing is, this boat rotted from the center out, as opposed to 'most' that go from the transom forward.. also, logistics are not in my favor, as the boat is blocked to one side of the driveway (drop off and grass on one side) and my shed/structure is in the way and over top of the boat, so getting a gantry set up to pull motor would be difficult, and there would be no way to get it over the back or side, even if I lifted it. I'm looking for a trailer, which would make it a lot easier to put the boat where i want and need, to pull the motor in the fall if I choose to.. either way, the boat will be 10 times better than it was, and maybe better than factory after everything else, even with the front of the engine mounts a bit wet.

So.. back to work... picked up a new shop vac and some ppe today... WELL WORTH the $$$ Last glass job I did i used a cheep paper mask, and regular safety glasses... this made the job soooo much nicer to do.



got suited up (and had one last power smoke and smashed back some liquid courage...)



got psyched up and went to town..



pics are a bit fuzzy (dusty) but i think I got the bulk of it.. vacuum out tomorrow and see what/where/how much I missed..



what a dust bowl in there... The water came from a line running to the wash down at the rear, i had the lines bent up out of my way but I bumped them at some point.. suddenly my foot felt wet.. what the?!?!? :lol:



Might be cutting and fitting wood this weekend, glassing by mid week if temps keep climbing.. supposed to FINALLY be getting up to normal seasonal temps this weekend..

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Nice suit . . .

I think your boat rotted from the keel and upward is bacuase it appears to have been partially full of water for quite some time. I recall, when looking to buy a boat a couple of years ago, I looked at a bowrider that had the bilge pump fail and rain water had collected in the hull and throughout the structure for seemingly many months. There was about 8" of water in it when I saw the boat. I can only imagine what that boat is going to end up like . . .

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Good looking PPE...
Did you say dust?...what dust?...I don't see no stinking dust...eep:

BTW, awesome progress!
Keep up the Grrrr-8 work!
Happy Friday!

 

[redneck joe]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

I'm a PBR guy when working on the boat:

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Re: 93 Crownline 250 'oh crap.. its even dirtier!" resto/refit thread

Thanks for the moral support guys.. Got the thing vacuumed out yesterday, then got into a few beers... so im gona have to make up for my slacking today somehow ..

I'm a PBR guy when working on the boat..

ya, I used to drink the pabst.. I found after too many it did not so nice things to me the morning after.. :lol:

I think your boat rotted from the keel and upward is bacuase it appears to have been partially full of water for quite some time. . . .

Oh ya, I agree. And seeing as the stringers likely de lamed within the first 4-5 years, the water that DID get in did even more damage. Started raining yesterday, which gave me some good insight as to were a lot of the water gets in; The vents at the end of the windows are tilted back, and there is a wood structure glassed into them from under, but its all bare wood inside, and is now somewhat soggy after all these years. Its also leaking down from there into the lower hull.. imagine that RIGHT ON TOP of the spot where the rotted bulk head was.. :facepalm: Also have a few leaks from the rub rail and the pop up cleats.. I'll probably go around the entire boat in the end and take every screw out and reseal anything trough hull, even if its not leaking yet, I'm sure it all needs attention by now.

I booked monday off work, so I'm hoping to get all the pieces cut and fit for the new stringers/bulkheads and start sticking them in. Gona do the raw water pump and new belts sometime this weekend too, before I put a bunch of structure back in front of the motor. I'll wait to do the manifolds till I have some new shelves on the sides to lay on. :lol: