93 Crownline 250; she 'was' dirty, but now shes clean and SPLASHED!!

bigdirty

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So I thought I found the 'next' boat, but after checking it out today a bit more thoroughly, I'm seeing some scary things.. and at this point, will NOT be dropping a bunch of $$$ on it for sure.. but on the off chance I can pick it up for next to free, I'm curious what all the 'pros' here think, cost and time wise.. a quick rundown here; the hull (outer) overall looks decent to me, no major stress cracking, a few scrapes and dock rash marks, the top is almost new, and the boat has a nice 'newer' look to it (curved window, integrated platform/bow pulpit, etc) Drive is a little beat up, and needs gimble/pin done (not a huge deal for me) but its a merc bravo 2 and it has a mk5 454.









The cabin is dirty but with a bit of tlc would be fine as is. Same goes for the seats/upholstery.. its useable for a season anyway. Some more white duct tape and some staples here and there, good to go..


For the moment, let us ignore the cracked manifolds...



I'm assuming if they blew, the motor block is gona be cracked as well.. :facepalm: theres $1800 in parts to rebuild the motor, right off the hop..

continued in next post...
 
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bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Getting to the bad stuff/damage issue.... In front of the motor, there is a bulkhead that looks pretty trashed to me.. Not sure what would have caused this.. That is looking straight down, between motor and fuel tank. I'm getting strange dejavu here...




Then I climbed into the aft cabin, where there is a small hatch, giving access to the bilge area. Main center stringer looks a bit rough, but its solid..



Stuck my phone down there, pointed towards the port side of the boat...



I'm no expert, but it appears the stringer has de-laminated from the hull? That pic is right ways up; the bottom is the hull, top is the stringer. Left side of the pic is the rear of the boat, just out of frame is the fuel tank, behind which sits the rear bulkhead that the center is blown out of. The wood stringer seams in good shape (ie; not rotted) but looks like it simply was not filleted and glassed well from the factory.. ? So, thoughts theory's welcome here.. Assuming motor was out, clean up and repair rear bulkhead, rip out aft cabin floor, re-tab and glass stringers... How much time and $$$ you folks think? My rough guess would be 2-3 weeks, $1000 give or take.. ?
 
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jbcurt00

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

3wks & $1K sounds overly optimistic, IMO. But I didn't crawl all over it poking around below decks.
 

bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Oh I'm just thinking materials and ONLY the glass work in the areas I mentioned, not adding in the time/$ to pull motor, drive, and gimble repair, all the other 'stuff' the boat may need.. The forward section of the boat is in fact fairly dry, and aside from the engine bay bulkhead, I'm not seeing many signs of rot or water intrusion/damage.. And we had a LOT of rain the past week, as well as snow..
 
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jbcurt00

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Like I said, I didn't crawl around & poke around so.........

But as you saw w/ your engine on the soon to depart your driveway boat, it's hard to see a great deal of the areas that can be much worse then you thought/hoped.

So far you've managed to not get beat down moving the previous project off your resto plate. Particularly re: $$. So if you think you can do better w/ this rig, drag it home. A great deal of the good or bad won't really be evident until you really dig into it. It's very often a 50/50 chance at best anyway.

Lightening does occasionally strike twice ya know
23a.png


So punk, you feeling lucky?

What's the trailer situation for this big ole boat?
 

zool

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

My stringers and bulkheads were delaminated, but only a few areas with no glass wrap were rotted...there was never an bedding, just the glass lams...a re-skinning of the stringers, and a clean lam to the hull would have worked for me, if not for the un-glassed sections....good wood is good wood, every day of the week..imo

Nice looking Lady btw :D
 

bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Ya, I thought so too Zool :) She's peeeeerty.... No trailer with the Crownline, but I'd have an easier time finding one for it I think, as it's only a 25ft and 8.5 beam. And ya, in response to this jbcurt00; "So if you think you can do better w/ this rig, drag it home." I do. I think I stand a better chance with it in many ways, but like you say, it is always a 50/50... I haven't decided yea or nay yet, and I'm definitely not going to drop more than say... $500 for it, given the motor has likely suffered the same fate as the bayliner, and the boat also needs obvious repair work right from the get go. Nowhere near what the bayliner needs, but work nonetheless.

The season up my way has been delayed as well, due to mother nature, so that gives me a little more 'time' to get things sorted out, if I do end up grabing it. I've been looking locally (all of Ontario actually..) and there is a whole bunch of OLD JUNK for sale, and not much good for under $5000.. and even at that price point, you dont get much..

All things factored in, I feel I'd still be ahead as it's a newer/nicer looking boat, has a more current power/drive that I can get parts/service for, and it hasn't had 20000bls of water sitting in it for who knows how long, rotting all its structure away bit by bit :lol: Also thinking about return on investment here (if I do end up getting for cheep and fixing it), its likely I can turn a small profit, or at least break even if I sell it.. and I would definitely feel better about dumping $2-$3K into this than the ol bayliner. This time around though, the first thing I would do before spending ANY money/time on repairs, is tear out the aft cabin floor, pull the motor, and start drilling core sample holes.. poking as far into it as possible to determine the extent of repairs required.
 

zool

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Didn't want to pull out the bayliner card, but yea, it would be a stigma-less flip if you went that route
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Sounds like a plan ^^^

Good luck.

No trailer? Well just ask them nice russian fella's to loan you theirs when they come grab the BigDirty
 

zool

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Sounds like a plan ^^^

Good luck.

No trailer? Well just ask them nice russian fella's to loan you theirs when they come grab the BigDirty

LOL, yez, iz it big nough fer sure and would pull Crownline fer sure!..heres another 100......ve will be there..
 

GT1000000

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Definitely a nice looking boat...it has some very nice lines...kind of Sea Ray like...
On the plus side, it does have a better to service drive line...
Seems to have been kept under cover, which is a huge plus...
On the negative, the blown out bulkheads and possibly non-functioning drive line, and the busted loose stringer, plus whatever else you may find after you start digging into it...
Until proven otherwise, I would remain highly suspicious of the motor mounts, stringers they are next too and the transom...
BTW, did you notice if the bilge drain plug was left in or out? If, of course it has one...
From this distance and from what you have described and shown so far, I definitely think you are starting out with a much better candidate to refurbish...
Thousand bucks sounds about right for materials to repair all of what you have shown and maybe most of what has yet to be discovered...structurally...
I personally don't care for the good looking wood that seems to have nothing covering it, but I suppose if it stays dry and looks that good, some tabbing should make it totally sound...
Timelines I tend to stay away from...:rolleyes:
IMHO, if you can score this boat for 500 bucks, and end up putting as much as 5-7 grand into it, or less of course:), for a complete refurbish including most everything it needs to get it sea worthy, then I see it as a good investment in personal enjoyment use...
Obviously if a flip is in its future, the actual costs might get recouped, but your free labor, prolly not...
Done any shopping for a trailer?
What does one that can handle this puppy go for? Plus the rehab costs?
Looking forward to the 'rest of the story'...:D
 

tpenfield

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Well, that did not take long . . .

My guess, considering a remanufactured engine and lots of structural repair, along with new upholstery. Mostly DIY

6 months

Engine and manifolds $4-5k. 454's are pricey

structural repair materials $1-2k

upholstery materials $1k

misc stuff $1k

total = $7-9k usd

that bulkhead tells me that the hull wanted to fold up and over stressed the bulkhead. Probably because the other structural components have detached from the hull.

this boat should be close to free in terms of a purchase price.
 
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bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

...On the plus side, it does have a better to service drive line...Seems to have been kept under cover, which is a huge plus...

Yes, and yes, marina just unwrapped it a few days ago and put canvas back up.

On the negative, the blown out bulkheads and possibly non-functioning drive line, and the busted loose stringer, plus whatever else you may find after you start digging into it...
Until proven otherwise, I would remain highly suspicious of the motor mounts, stringers they are next too and the transom...
BTW, did you notice if the bilge drain plug was left in or out? If, of course it has one...
From this distance and from what you have described and shown so far, I definitely think you are starting out with a much better candidate to refurbish...
Thousand bucks sounds about right for materials to repair all of what you have shown and maybe most of what has yet to be discovered...structurally...
I personally don't care for the good looking wood that seems to have nothing covering it, but I suppose if it stays dry and looks that good, some tabbing should make it totally sound...
Timelines I tend to stay away from...:rolleyes:
IMHO, if you can score this boat for 500 bucks, and end up putting as much as 5-7 grand into it, or less of course:), for a complete refurbish including most everything it needs to get it sea worthy, then I see it as a good investment in personal enjoyment use...
Obviously if a flip is in its future, the actual costs might get recouped, but your free labor, prolly not...
Done any shopping for a trailer?
What does one that can handle this puppy go for? Plus the rehab costs?
Looking forward to the 'rest of the story'.


Well the thing I"m thinking with it is that I don't/wont need to do everything at once.. the cosmetics like the cabin and seating are serviceable for a season, and I'll have next winter to deal with them. Mechanical and structure issues would be the 'need done' for this season. A somewhat decent trailer that will hold the boat could be had for about $1500 around here, from what I'm seeing... but I'm not going to worry about a trailer yet..

Well, that did not take long . . .

My guess, considering a remanufactured engine and lots of structural repair, along with new upholstery. Mostly DIY

6 months

Engine and manifolds $4-5k. 454's are pricey....

Well doing some looking, ya, the gasket kit and new bearings/cam/lifters will run me about $2200, plus I'd have to find a good block, get it checked, bored .030" over likely, and buy new pistons to suit. I'd be $3000+ anyway. I may have a solution for that however, for half the price.. more on that in a sec..

...
structural repair materials $1-2k

upholstery materials $1k

misc stuff $1k

total = $7-9k usd

that bulkhead tells me that the hull wanted to fold up and over stressed the bulkhead. Probably because the other structural components have detached from the hull.

this boat should be close to free in terms of a purchase price.

I already have about $300 worth of glassing supplies, that I didn't end up using on the big dirty, so they would go towards this boat.. a few more pieces of ply/wood and some fiberglass mating.. cant see it getting much over $1500 tho.. and with decent weather coming, I think I could get a fair amount done in a short time.. I'm single remember :laugh:

Like I said, lots of misc stuff will pop up im sure, but some could no doubt wait till shes in, or even till next winter. As for price... :lol: heh heh.. weeeell... Upon discovering the manifolds, I stopped looking to much further into it, told the marina staff, and left it to see what will happen. My friend that put me onto this boat in the first place, as he knows the guy that runs the place quite well, made a phone call today; (I showed him all the pics) The guy said something to the effect of; "oh...uh... crap... well, ya, not that I don't trust you and your buddy, but I gota get one of our tech guys to look at it monday... if its all junk, it's really kinda worthless... dang... I'll let you know."

Boils down to the fact that this boat is now pretty much scrap, as far as the marina is considering it anyway. So I may be able to grab it, for the cost of hauling it out of there, about $200 :)

Now the engine 'option' I have... My friend (same guy found out about this boat for me) has offered me a deal; He has a complete 0 hour, fresh built, 350 mrecruiser, carb to pan including manifolds, sitting in his shop. He built it for another guy, but he's having to move/deal with other things, so may not even have time to put motor in, never mind go boating this season. My friend has a 94 31PC formula with twin 454's, and wants this 'cracked' one for spare parts to have on hand. His deal is he helps me pull and drop motors, I give him $1500 and the old 454. I think its reasonable, and I know he has at least $1800 into the rebuilt 350. A lot of these Crownlines came factory with a SB 350, and still cruise 25-30mph. Change bell-housing and it will literally drop right in, plug and play. Also makes the gimble/drive repair easier with the motor out of the way (and it would have to come out regardless, to repair bulkhead/check mounts and stringers) so here's my quick rundown, off the hop this season, I'd be spending;

$200 - haul boat home
$100 - repair gimble (have a plan for that, I'll explain further if this all happens)
$1500- 'new' 350 SB motor
$1000- My 'guess' for materials required to repair stringers/bulkhead

And for that, my time estimate would be 4-6 weeks, give or take.. Still WAY better odds of getting out this season than I could have hoped for with the bayliner, and if it doesn't happen, so be it... definitely wasnt gona happen with the big dirty anyway :p
 

GT1000000

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Sounds like you have some very good plans there, BD...I am getting stoked just reading about them!
Here's hoping everything works out!:whoo:
 

bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Sounds like you have some very good plans there, BD...

:lol: ya, I hope it all works out too, getting a little excited myself.. Maybe not the 'best' plans, but the best I can come up with anyway.. hoping to not repeat previous mistakes this time around, be it this or another boat. No mater what I end up with, I'm sure I'll find other mistakes to make along the way, but such is life right? :laugh:

I have set myself a max of $500 (if necessary) to get this Crownline...Although free, or cost of hauling would be better.. There are a few other options, this isnt 'the only boat' of course, but I have taken a liking to her.... If I hear back from some other people, I'll I'm going to look at a few other boats in the area. Comparable size/type but both older.. prices between $3500 and $5000, so I'll do the math and see where the Crownline falls after factoring in repair costs/etc and what the others need... and of course consider potential resale value, in good/turnkey condition...
 

bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

LOL, yez, iz it big nough fer sure and would pull Crownline fer sure!..heres another 100......ve will be there..


oh ya, those clowns haven't been in contact yet either, and I wouldn't want to rely on them anyhow :lol:
 

bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

OK.... heres how things look now; The marina dropped it in the lake today. Yup, still floats... fired it up. NO water leaking from manifolds (i think the crack's have just rusted back shut for now) but regardless, the block seams to be good! Ran up to temp, held steady at about 160, and she sat there and purred for 15 mins. Rev'd to 3000rpm for about 30 seconds, makes oil pressure, sounds like it should.. Shut down, check engine oil, NO signs of water, oil is good and clean. Drive shifts to forward and reverse, no oil slick in the water, tech guy says he checked oil, was full and clean.. very little clunk or noise when shifting. Upon closer inspection of the bulkhead in the engine bay, i don't believe it is so much 'rotten' more or less just broken.. have an idea for that, but anyway... now, seeing as its a running 454 merc and a working drive, they want $1500..

Ya.. about that $500 max i set for myself...:facepalm:

Went for a quick drive and got a coffee with my friend (who met me down there) and discussed.. he has a line on good used manifolds for $400 (maybe less..) and we have a plan to repair the loose/sloppy gimble housing and pin for very little $$.. So I think i'm gona do it. If the thing turns out to be to far gone, in too many ways, I know I can pull this power package out and likely double my investment selling it off. Its a gamble, for sure.. but if it all works out, i think I will end up with a really decent boat that will be well worth the money/time I'll have to put in to make her seaworthy again. :rolleyes: now if I can just get the 'other' one to disappear...
 
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jfas

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Hey BD,

Just wanted to pop in and vouch for the construction of the particular boat that you're looking at. One of my best friends has one just like it and I have been inside of every nook and cranny at some point in time. They have a great hull and very good build quality. His has the same drive line setup and it moves the boat pretty well; low to mid 40mph range with a full load. His does list slightly to starboard, always has most likely due to the cabin setup. I really love the nice and deep cabin with lots of head room, the aft cabin is also pretty roomy.

Anyways, just my 2 cents from some real world experience.

JFas
 

bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Good to hear jfas, i'm hoping she is still in reasonable shape, as it appears the previous owners may have been a bit lax inthe maintenance dept. At least she's still in one piece, has mc power, has NOT been sunk or filled with water, it floats, and is mechanically operable.. so I'm already 5 steps ahead of the last hulk :lol:
 

bigdirty

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Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Re: 93 Crownline 250 advice/opinions on repair costs (diy)

Its a done deal now.. :p Paid for her yesterday, and got word from my buddy on the new/used manifolds, $300. And big dirty is leaving monday, so here goes..... :lol: round two...
 
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