Floor replacement help / questions

[Axkiker]

So im getting ready to jump into the floor replacement on my 1994 Chaparral 230. Had a few questions as to what materials / techniques to use.

So im planning on replacing the plywood with a new material called Advanteck. Material was recommend to me by several people and is available locally. Anyone ever used it? I figure I will remove everything and hopefully use the reemains as a template for the new panels.

When I go about the reinstall do you recommend using a liquid nails or similar product between the flooring and stringers. Also figure ill use stainless deck type screws to attach the flooring to stringers.

What should I use for filler between the sides of the boat and the new flooring. I assume a fiberglass peanut butter solution is needed. What mixture would you recommend? Ive read about people saying not to use a mix which is too ridgid.

Is the filler even needed? If I could get the seam small enough would only the top fiberglass matt be enough. I figure if I use liquid nails etc that would fill in the gap as well.

Do all seams need to have fiberglass over them? I plan on spraying a bed liner material which is waterproof over the entire floor. Would that be enough? Kinda worried about the boat flexing and seams cracking but not sure what was typically done.

Just curious if anyone has some suggestions or sees anything that stands out as horribly wrong.

Thanks

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

Hi and welcome to the Iboats.com dry dock, Axkiker...
Couple of things you are going to get asked for right away...
1-Pictures, we need to see what you see to best help you out...
2-The deck is getting replaced WHY? Soft spots?
OK, if you have soft areas on your deck and you are going to remove it, you need to check and make sure the rest of the underlying substructure is not compromised in any way...
If there is foam under the deck, you need to take a core sample from the bottom of it to ascertain that it is dry...
Core samples of the stringers and transom would also be indicated...
All of these samples need to be taken from as far back and as close to the bottom as possible...
What usually happens is rain water gets into the boat and sits for a time, that causes a fungus to form and begins the process of rotting the wood substructure...
Unless this boat has always been stored indoors or under really good cover and put away nice and dry after any outing, the possibility of rot existing is quite high...
If you go through the trouble of just replacing the deck, if there is rot, in less than a couple of years...you could be doing it again...
That's a lot of work and expense...
And yes, you do need to seal everything up as best as possible to prevent any water from getting under the deck in future...that includes using a good grade of marine sealant on any hardware you may use to attach things like seats/pedestals/etc...to the deck.
Bedliner material is NOT recommended...there are many other, better products when the time comes...
We'll be here to help you out, so dig in and tear up that deck and let's see what you really have...
Best of luck and have Fun!
GT1M

 

[Axkiker]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

Hi and welcome to the Iboats.com dry dock, Axkiker...
Couple of things you are going to get asked for right away...
1-Pictures, we need to see what you see to best help you out...
2-The deck is getting replaced WHY? Soft spots?
OK, if you have soft areas on your deck and you are going to remove it, you need to check and make sure the rest of the underlying substructure is not compromised in any way...
If there is foam under the deck, you need to take a core sample from the bottom of it to ascertain that it is dry...
Core samples of the stringers and transom would also be indicated...
All of these samples need to be taken from as far back and as close to the bottom as possible...
What usually happens is rain water gets into the boat and sits for a time, that causes a fungus to form and begins the process of rotting the wood substructure...
Unless this boat has always been stored indoors or under really good cover and put away nice and dry after any outing, the possibility of rot existing is quite high...
If you go through the trouble of just replacing the deck, if there is rot, in less than a couple of years...you could be doing it again...
That's a lot of work and expense...
And yes, you do need to seal everything up as best as possible to prevent any water from getting under the deck in future...that includes using a good grade of marine sealant on any hardware you may use to attach things like seats/pedestals/etc...to the deck.
Bedliner material is NOT recommended...there are many other, better products when the time comes...
We'll be here to help you out, so dig in and tear up that deck and let's see what you really have...
Best of luck and have Fun!
GT1M

Thank you for the advice. You are indeed correct. The floor has some soft spots in a couple places plus the carpet was shot. All in all it wasnt in too bad of shape I just felt I might as well replace it since im working on other stuff as well. I have drilled a few areas in the rear portion of the stringer and have not found any rot. Knock on wood I plan on checking the entire length of stringers once I have the floor up. Hopefully all comes out okay stringer wise.

So why do you not believe a bed coating would be a good choice for the deck. I think Als which is considered to be a good coating was originally developed for marine deck applications. Im not doubting you, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

If it ever stops raining here ill get back out and as I pull stuff up take some pics.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

Several boats have been done with typical truck bed liner material by others throughout the forum and most have reported similar types of issues, lifting, flaking, peeling, etc...
I do not doubt that there are some really good liner materials out there, as evidenced by OEM manufacturers using them in their trucks...however the marine environment is usually not on their list of specifications...
Materials that are formulated for use in the marine environment are usually more flexible, can withstand constant exposure to moisture and UV...
The rest of the story also may have to do with whether or not the subsurface was properly prepared, which is usually my first suspect...
If, as you mentioned, "Als" was originally formulated for the marine environment, then I would definitely use their marine products if that is what you want...I am specifically pointing out that "Truck" liner materials are not necessarily formulated to meet the rigors of water use...

 

[Axkiker]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

Several boats have been done with typical truck bed liner material by others throughout the forum and most have reported similar types of issues, lifting, flaking, peeling, etc...
I do not doubt that there are some really good liner materials out there, as evidenced by OEM manufacturers using them in their trucks...however the marine environment is usually not on their list of specifications...
Materials that are formulated for use in the marine environment are usually more flexible, can withstand constant exposure to moisture and UV...
The rest of the story also may have to do with whether or not the subsurface was properly prepared, which is usually my first suspect...
If, as you mentioned, "Als" was originally formulated for the marine environment, then I would definitely use their marine products if that is what you want...I am specifically pointing out that "Truck" liner materials are not necessarily formulated to meet the rigors of water use...

Good info!!!! Im not dead set on anything.. Just thought since the bed material is able to obtain a fairly high build coating and is water proof it may be a good alternative.

What would you recommend over a bed liner material?

If anyone wants to look into the Als material you can visit the following link. Al's Liner DIY Bed Liner Spray | Spray Liner Techniques

I believe they are a spin off of Scorpion coatings which has a marine division Truck Bed Liners | Bed Liner Spray and Protective Coating

Would love to hear input good or bad. I originally wanted Linex but due to price just cant justify it.

Thanks

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

I'm not familiar w/ a truck bedliner known as Als. Did you mean Al's? A Scorpion product:
DIY Spray In Bedliner - DIY Truck Bed Liner - Scorpion Coatings

Never heard of it. But having had to remove a poorly done DIY bedliner product from an aluminum boat, I'd never recommend permanent parts of a boat or hull be sprayed w/ a bedliner. Parts & pieces that can be removed or replaced, maybe, but not likely.

Having sprayed bedliner (commercially, not DIY) on several various surfaces and knowing that some who use the same system DO boats, I'd still not recommend it for a boat.

 

[Axkiker]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

I'm not familiar w/ a truck bedliner known as Als. Did you mean Al's? A Scorpion product:
DIY Spray In Bedliner - DIY Truck Bed Liner - Scorpion Coatings

Never heard of it. But having had to remove a poorly done DIY bedliner product from an aluminum boat, I'd never recommend permanent parts of a boat or hull be sprayed w/ a bedliner. Parts & pieces that can be removed or replaced, maybe, but not likely

Having sprayed bedliner (commercially, not DIY) on several various surfaces and knowing that some who use the same system DO boats, I'd still not recommend it for a boat.

Hummm that is interesting.... Why do you not recommend even the commercially sprayed in stuff??

Do you have a marine type recommendation which would provide similar texture and high build. Im definitely open to suggestions.

Thanks

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

When it works, and is done right, it works GREAT. But a marine environment can be tough. It only takes a small imperfection in prep or the coating for there to be problems. Most of the bedliners fade when exposed to UV, some do not, but most do.

Heavy bedliner type products, IMO, can mask underlying problems when sprayed over plywood. Plywood in a boat is susceptible to water intrusion from both faces & all the edges, so although the bedliner may protect the topsides, it's not totally encapsulating the plywood.

I spent a fair amount of time & money trying to remove the poorly done DIY product from my 1st Jet. Where it was loose, it came up easy. But where it was stuck, it was well stuck, very well stuck in fact. And bested most of my efforts to remove it. It sucked eggs, very large ostrich eggs that had been prepped as century eggs....

Warning: Carefully consider the fortitude of your system prior to watching this video:

Yes, I have sprayed the interior & the exterior of tin boats. I've also sprayed a fiberglass boat's interior, exterior bow cap & along both gunwales. I would never do it in a boat I own, and don't recommend it. Many of the other dealers in my network (Michigan mostly) regularly spray boats. I don't know if they have more confidence in the system, have been doing it long enough to be 100% positive about their prep & application, or as long as they get paid, they will spray ANYTHING you want them to.

But having owned a boat, removed bedliner from my boat, and sprayed someone else's boat, I will never spray one of mine. I just won't. And I fully believe in the product, our ability to prep for & apply it and regularly meet w/ business owners and sell them our system & spray loading docks (inside & outside), greenhouse floors, restrooms, janitorial closets & other surfaces. I will also add that our system uses a very aggressive, hydro-scopic (not sure that's the right word, but like gorilla glue, it forces itself into the pores of whatever it's applied to, while it cures), alphatic resin sealer prior to application of our spray on coating. Once applied our coatings will resist both lateral & vertical displacement of over a 1/4". So on a concrete slab, the slab could crack & separate or lift a 1/4" and our spray on coating won't tear or un-bond from the sealer. As long as there is no moisture present when we apply the sealer, the concrete slab could draw moisture in from below or the edge of the slab & our sealer/spray down coating won't lift or peel under hydrolic pressure from below. I still won't apply either to one of my boat's hull or deck.

That said, as an alternative to epoxy, I might seal the plywood/wood bench seat tops or other wood on 1 of my projects w/ our sealer. But that would only be in lieu of using epoxy. I'd still have to topcoat our sealer w/ paint, but I am particularly impressed w/ the sealer. It does have a fairly narrow prep specification that must be met, but it does do a remarkable job sealing.

Sorry about that whole century egg thing uke:

 

[Axkiker]

Re: Floor replacement help / questions

When it works, and is done right, it works GREAT. But a marine environment can be tough. It only takes a small imperfection in prep or the coating for there to be problems. Most of the bedliners fade when exposed to UV, some do not, but most do.

Heavy bedliner type products, IMO, can mask underlying problems when sprayed over plywood. Plywood in a boat is susceptible to water intrusion from both faces & all the edges, so although the bedliner may protect the topsides, it's not totally encapsulating the plywood.

I spent a fair amount of time & money trying to remove the poorly done DIY product from my 1st Jet. Where it was loose, it came up easy. But where it was stuck, it was well stuck, very well stuck in fact. And bested most of my efforts to remove it. It sucked eggs, very large ostrich eggs that had been prepped as century eggs....

Warning: Carefully consider the fortitude of your system prior to watching this video:

Yes, I have sprayed the interior & the exterior of tin boats. I've also sprayed a fiberglass boat's interior, exterior bow cap & along both gunwales. I would never do it in a boat I own, and don't recommend it. Many of the other dealers in my network (Michigan mostly) regularly spray boats. I don't know if they have more confidence in the system, have been doing it long enough to be 100% positive about their prep & application, or as long as they get paid, they will spray ANYTHING you want them to.

But having owned a boat, removed bedliner from my boat, and sprayed someone else's boat, I will never spray one of mine. I just won't. And I fully believe in the product, our ability to prep for & apply it and regularly meet w/ business owners and sell them our system & spray loading docks (inside & outside), greenhouse floors, restrooms, janitorial closets & other surfaces. I will also add that our system uses a very aggressive, hydro-scopic (not sure that's the right word, but like gorilla glue, it forces itself into the pores of whatever it's applied to, while it cures), alphatic resin sealer prior to application of our spray on coating. Once applied our coatings will resist both lateral & vertical displacement of over a 1/4". So on a concrete slab, the slab could crack & separate or lift a 1/4" and our spray on coating won't tear or un-bond from the sealer. As long as there is no moisture present when we apply the sealer, the concrete slab could draw moisture in from below or the edge of the slab & our sealer/spray down coating won't lift or peel under hydrolic pressure from below. I still won't apply either to one of my boat's hull or deck.

That said, as an alternative to epoxy, I might seal the plywood/wood bench seat tops or other wood on 1 of my projects w/ our sealer. But that would only be in lieu of using epoxy. I'd still have to topcoat our sealer w/ paint, but I am particularly impressed w/ the sealer. It does have a fairly narrow prep specification that must be met, but it does do a remarkable job sealing.

Sorry about that whole century egg thing uke:

Good info.. Any suggestions as to a marine specific coating you recommend? just kinda looking for something high build like the DIY bed coatings.

Thanks