Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos in post-ALMOST COMPLETE

[mattjenna]

I have a 15 feet fibreglass V hull half-cabin (caddy I think they're called in the US) in need of some love.<br /><br />Coming in yesterday at the ramp I'm winding the boat onto the tilt trailer with the hand winch when my mate says "hang on, what's that crunching sound?"<br /><br />Hmmmmmmm.<br /><br />So we stop an look under the hull and it's compressed and cracked etc. where it has been repaired in the past-it's an early 80's hull so plenty of drag up the beach/bottom/ramp time. <br /><br />It's obviously been repaired in the same spot-probably a number of times as the photos attest.<br /><br />We've put a small wedge under the front on the trailer to take the weight off the affected part of the hull.<br /><br />Now looking for advice on how to repair-having only fixed surfboards in the past and not boat-I have almost no idea how to go forward.<br /><br />I have the following questions:<br /><br />Initially would like some advice on raising the boat on the trailer to effect the repair.<br /><br />Assume I grind out all the damaged area and then some? Tips please.<br /><br />Type of grinder? Roughness etc?<br /><br />Type of repair materials? I would think laminated mat would be stronger than chop strand? <br /><br />Weight of mat? <br /><br />Is Kevlar better? <br /><br />Polyester or epoxy?<br /><br />I have looked from the top of the hull-but can’t get access to the affected part from the inside and I’m loathe to cut an access hole-although, I assume that’s the best thing to do. Any tips there please.<br /><br />Just have no experience on this and want to do it right.<br /><br />Any help/advice GREATLY appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Matt<br />PS I tried to link photos without success-so only URL below.<br /> <br /> http://static.flickr.com/47/166001072_4650365d6f_m.jpg <br /> http://static.flickr.com/49/165996538_ede50468cc_m.jpg <br /> http://static.flickr.com/53/165996483_e9fd94949c_m.jpg <br /> http://static.flickr.com/52/165996397_015e0b1df6_m.jpg <br /> http://static.flickr.com/75/165996308_5e15d89930_m.jpg

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

open it from the top, afraid you have a patch job gone wrong. you can always grind off from the outside first, as its going to have to be done anyway.

 

[mattjenna]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Any tips on opening from the top?<br />Assume use a jigsaw to cut an opening?<br />Any particular pitfalls?<br /><br />Is there any torsion strength provided by the 'top'?<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Matt

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

a circular (skil) saw set to 3/4 inch depth, so you don't cut too deep. jig saw not recommended. start by cutting a 12inch by 12inch inspection hole. i' afraid you are going to find a rotted keel. will keep watch.

 

[mattjenna]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

What's the problem with a jigsaw?<br /><br />And if the keel IS rotten? Prognosis? Terminal? Or just a ****load of work?<br /><br />Matt

 

[epresutti]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Matt Jones,<br /><br />Jig saw may go too deep, is harder to get a straight cut and may wind up bending and giving you a beveled cut on the deck. You could also use a sawsall at an angle. Or if you like an angle grinder with a diamond cutting blade. I personally prefer using a circular saw. You need something with a beefy blade, it just goes faster.<br /><br />Like tashasdaddy said you may find some keel rot and stringer rot.<br /><br />You may also want to look at your trailer setup. I don't like (my personal preference) the boat sitting on the keel roller. I have my bunks set up (2x6) to fit in the space between the chines. Keel roller only comes into play when loading and unloading. I am also not a fan of roller bunks. I have an 18ft. and 8ft. bunks. Bouncing on the keel is not a good thing on the trailer.<br /><br />For structural repairs you really need to fix it from the inside first, then make it pretty from the outside.<br /><br />Peace.<br /><br />Ed.

 

[mattjenna]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Apologies for the naivety-what are "bunks"? <br /><br />Are they the sliders-or long parallel pieces of say carpet covered timber on trailers that support the hull on the underside?<br /><br />Easy to install?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Matt

 

[epresutti]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Matt Jones,<br /><br />The only bad question is the one that doesn't get asked <br /><br />Yes, bunks run the length of the trailer parallel to the hull. Very easy to install, inexpensive. Galvanized brackets with 2x6 pressure treated lumber, bunk carpet and galvanized nails.<br /><br />Peace.<br /><br />Ed.

 

[mattjenna]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Ed,<br /><br />A little off topic now-but any hints on installing the bunks?<br /><br />I assume that you would want to ensure that they were the correct height/length/angle etc. to esnure that the pressure was correctly spread and to assist loading and unloading the boat onto and off the trailer?<br /><br />I would think however-that a boat that needed bunks to protect it's keel would be a boat with keel problems anyway and less than seaworthy? Wouldn't a boat with a 'good' keel not require bunks?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Matt

 

[epresutti]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Matt,<br /><br />Not a marine engineer, but here are my thoughts. The boat is design to float in water (not trying to be funny), so the hull is structured in such a way to support that design criteria.<br /><br />I don't think the problem is having the boat sit statically on the keel. The problem I experienced when trailering my boat was the bouncing during travel. The bow was not properly supported and the bunks were to far back, this created a flex point that produced a stress crack foward of the bunks.<br /><br />So if the boat is supported by the keel only, and is not "glued" to the trailer it will bounce on the keel on the trailer during travel, this would create a single point instant load on the keel. I believe this would be a problem. There are other opinions I am sure.<br /><br />As far as installing the bunks, you can raise the boat above the trailer with a floor jack, support it with 4x4 cross members and jack stands and then position your bunks and bunk brackets.<br /><br />Here is a picture of my trailer bunk on the port side. I just redid these before putting my boat back on the trailer during my rebuilld. Note the boat is not resting on the keel. This is an 18ft, walk thru. Don't know the exact weight yet, should be about 1500lbs.<br /><br />

<br /><br /> Whole project. <br /><br />Peace.<br /><br />Ed.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

matt, the keel rollers are thare to help centering the boat on the trailer when loading and reduce friction. it is ok if the boat touches the rollers when loaded, but the roller should not carry a lot of weight. when in the water the stress is distributed thur out the hull, on the trailer it is distributed thru out the bunk boards. thus more area to carry the weight. you bunks should also extend about 2 inches past the transom, to absorb the weight of the engine. also the use of a tramsom saver reduces stress on the transom when trailering.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Matt, Roller trailers were used for years and are still in use. Boats are designed to sit on their keels, without incident. You will likely find the keel of your boat has issues. I had the same problem with my SeaRay. The keel was a 3/4 strip of plywood cut to match the contour of the hull and stapled to the underside of the floor. Needles to say it was inadequate. You need to cut out the floor as described, dig out the foam, and create a new keel or keel section. First block up the boat fore and aft of the damaged area. Now reshape the fiberglass section back to its original shape, and glass in a new keel section. Attach it to any good keel sections and any frames. Install new foam and replace floor section.

 

[epresutti]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Chris1956,<br /><br />Not to be argumentative but it is not clear to me that "Boats are designed to sit on their keels, without incident." You referenced, that your SeaRay was not designed correctly to support it's own weight on the keel, this seems to contradict your statement. Could you please clarify.<br /><br />Matt,<br /><br />With regard to roller trailers, I have a friend who has one and loves it. The rollers are on the hull and the keel, not on the keel exclusively. In addition to the keel rollers there are also bunk rollers. My preference if for bunks, not that rollers are good or bad.<br /><br />Peace.<br /><br />Ed.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Ed, Go to any boatyard and look at the rows of powerboats of all sizes. They are always supported under the keel in the bow area and in the rear corners of the hull. Unfortunately, the support in my boat's keel became useless over time, and failed. Had SeaRay used solid 3/4" lumber and SS screws, instead of plywood and staples, the support would have lasted.

 

[epresutti]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Chris1956,<br /><br />Yes I am familiar with this, my statement/question is more along the lines of point loads, these boats are sitting statically they are not bouncing on a trailer during travel. <br /><br />This is more to my point, the hulls are not designed to rest on the keel and bounce up and down, as would be the case while being trailered. I am suggesting that keel support alone on the trailer is a bad thing when towing. <br /><br /><br />Peace.<br /><br />Ed.

 

[mattjenna]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos links in post

<p>Just to update those who asisted with advice. </p>

<p>I've repaired the crakced keel-with the inavluable help of an experienced friend. Turns out the damage was realtively minor in comparison to much I've seen here. </p>

<p>We ended up chocking up the boat on the trailer and then cutting a hole in the deck to get access to the damage from above.</p>

<p>We then cut out the offending area-which has been reapired poorly in the past-in as much as the previous owners had not cut a hole in the top to get to the damaged area. </p>

<p>Suspect that the keel had worn through the baot being pulled up on beaches and the thin area was susceptible to damage as a result of being pulled onto the trailer rollers.</p>

<p>We placed multiple chop strand layers and a few layers of mat and then gel coated. It's very much a job aimed at strength rather than beauty. More interested in a keel which would withstand use rather than the white glove inspection.</p>

<p>Also palced an extra set of rollers on each side of the hull-rather than keel rollers-bunks being the best option, but the msot time consuming. See how the hull rollers go first.</p>

<p>Pictures below-hopefull they'll appear in the post rather than having to be clicked to.</p>

<p>Huge THANKS to all who gave advice and guidance-always appreciated.</p>

<p>Matt</p>

<p>Outside of repair after inside chop layers and before outside chop layers, sanding and gel coat</p>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/MATTJENNA/outsideofhullafterinsiderepair.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<p>Inside hull after repair</p>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/MATTJENNA/insideofhullafterinsiderepair.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<p>Inside of hull before repair</p>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/MATTJENNA/insideofhullbeforerepair.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<p>Chocked up boat</p>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/MATTJENNA/boatchockedup.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<p>Hole in hull cut out before repair</p>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/MATTJENNA/holeoutsideofhullbeforerepair.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<p>Damaged area previously repaired</p>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/MATTJENNA/previouslyrepairedarea36-13-20067-3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

 

[epresutti]

Re: Fiberglass V Hull-Keel cracked-advice please-photos in post-ALMOST COMPLETE

Matt,

Good job, looks like you are well on your way to happy boating again. BTW: Hull rollers should work fine, buddy of mine loves them.

Peace.

Ed.