1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

bvetter

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I?ve decided to start a thread on my repair efforts. The boat is a ?99 Celebrity, 190 bow rider. It has a 5.0L Mercruiser with an Alpha One outdrive.

When I bought the boat back in 2012, it appeared to be in very good shape, cosmetically speaking the boat was near showroom condition. The first summer on the lakes the boat performed very well, the engine was strong and the boat felt solid. Last spring in 2013 while I was de-winterizing, I was looking in the engine compartment and noticed one of the lag bolts securing the port side engine mount to the bed/stringer below was turned out a couple threads. I put a wrench on it and it just kept turning, pretty obvious what the problem was, but this being my first boat I turned to online forums to confirm my suspicion, wood rot. I drove the boat like that for the remainder of the summer without any issues and decided to tackle the project this winter.

If FriscoBoater is paying attention, I?ve been watching your Sea Ray videos. I am a visual learner so they pretty much gave me the confidence to dig right in. Thanks.

So here we are, this is my first post and will try to keep updates as I go along and will post pics. So far, I have removed the outdrive and engine, and cut out the engine mount beds and stringers which were completely rotted out. I removed the fuel tank to gain access for some exploratory drilling and found some further rot in the fuel tank compartment stringers and around the ski locker, so I have also removed the carpet in preparation to cut out some of the deck. The deck itself seems very solid, I drew a few core samples and the plywood deck is dry and clean, so my plan is to make strategic cuts so I can salvage what I can.

Living in Saskatchewan, I am having trouble tracking down fiberglass materials at a reasonable cost, so I?m hoping some other western Canadians will chime in with suggestions.

Here we go!
 

bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Pics of the boat last summer.IMG_7192.jpgIMG_7193.jpgIMG_7194.jpgIMG_7200.jpgIMG_7199.jpg
 

bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

A couple more. IMG_7198.jpgIMG_7190.jpg
 

Woodonglass

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Welcome to iBoats!

Post some pics of your recent work so we can see what you're doing.

You might try these guys...
Industrial Plastics & Paints

WelcomeAboard3.jpg
 

tpenfield

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Welcome . . . post some pics of the repair area and the work that you have done so far.

I did a partial stringer replacement on my Formula 242 a couple of years ago. It sounds like you are planing a partial replacement as well. My recommendation would be to figure out how far the rot and related moisture has gone throughout the structure and plan your repairs accordingly.

Boats generally rot from the bottom,up and the stern, forward.
 

bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Here are some pics of the port side engine mount. In the first photo you can clearly see the deflection in the top of the fibreglass casing due to the weight of the engine, another sign of internal rotting. Next photo shows the top sliced off. And so begins the exploration.......
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Starboard side engine mount bed sliced open, looked not too bad at first glance. Opened up the stringer and yes, it was rotted out too.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Here are some pics of the bilge area before and after engine mount removal.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Some more pics, these just showing the deck before and after carpet removal. Plan is to replace carpet with new, everything peeled off very nicely so I can use it as a template. Unfortunately it is 7.5' at it's widest part, so will need to fine 8' carpet width. Looking for suggestions on possible suppliers in Canada. Called a few local flooring/carpet stores in Saskatoon, no luck, would be special order.

On the stbd side, carpet glue was very dry and damn near all scraped off just with a paint scraper. Port side not so much, glue was way thicker and gummier. Will need to get that figured out. I tried a few test patches with contact cement thinner/cleaner, seemed to soften the glue up to the point where I could get 90% of it removed on the test patches.
 

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Woodonglass

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

I'd strongly recommend that your drill core samples down low around the keyhole of the outdrive and inspect the shavings to ensure the transom is dry. If so then just fill the holes with 3M 5200 sealant. If the Motor Mounts are that bad there's a possibility that the transom could be compromised as well. Since you have everything out, now would be the time to to the transom too if it needs it.
 

bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

The deck seems very solid throughout. I took a core sample on the starboard side right behind where the captain's chair would be. It was the only spot I could feel the slightest deviation, but most likely because it was a large span between bulkheads, the stringer, and the hull. The core sample looked very good. Looking inside the hole down into the hull, the glass looked brand new, no water stains or any sign of mold/rot.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Agreed. The exposed areas where the stringers met up with the transom looked dark at first glance, but the dark stuff just seemed to be residue from the stringer rot. On the exposed areas where the stringer butted up against the transom, it is evident that they treated the transom wood with resin. I poked around a little and the exposed transom areas felt hard and dry. I took a chisel and cut out a square about 3/4"x3/4", going about 1/4" deep, and the wood chips came out nice and dry. Tapping in around the inside of the keyhole, everything sounds good and snug. But nevertheless, I will to a few more exploratory core samples down low. You're absolutely right about this being the time to do it.
 

bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

The bulkhead between the fuel compartment and the ski locker was basically non existent. Tore it out which also showed the stingers along the ski compartment were deteriorated. Which brings up a good point. Before starting all of this, I tapped around all of the structure of the boat with a screwdriver handle to try and get a sense of soft spots. Inside the ski locker, the stingers sounded, and felt, very solid. After removing the bulkhead and seeing what was left of those stringers (stbd side was more or less compost falling out), it goes to show that a simple tap test can give you false positives. I drilled test holes along the stringers going toward the bow, and the rot appears to "stop" around 10-12" in where I start getting relatively dry flakes. So I will likely be replacing at least couple feet of stringer on each side of the ski locker. I may be able to easily remove a good section of deck in one piece to get access to those stringers. Will keep you posted.

On the port side of the fuel compartment (second picture), I had drilled a core sample (on the left). The core sample looked really good, nice and dry. But further up near the bulkead, not so good when I just drilled a couple 1/4 holes with a bit. So the port side stringer will be coming out. Stbd side seems dry, but may opt to replace it any ways.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Was able to start removing part of the decking last night. At least now I have really good access into the ski locker for stringer repairs. The floor of the ski locker is also completely rotted out, so I will be replacing that as well.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

For anyone looking into fibreglass materials in Western Canada, I made a few calls and have done some price comparisons.

Industrial Plastics and Paints
Offices in Calgary and throughout BC (I spoke with the Calgary branch)
They carry pretty much everything I would need, their prices were competitive but not the lowest. Their 1.5oz CSM was the least expensive out of the three vendors, but not by much.

Viking Plastics
Office in Edmonton
I called them out of recommendation from a neighbour who does boat repairs for a living. Their pricing was the best I could find out of the three vendors, but for some reason they don't carry 1708 biaxial. I will be ordering the bulk of my materials from them, at least off the get go.

Fibertek
Office is in Burnaby BC
Generally speaking, their pricing was higher than Industrial Plastics, but not the case for 1708, so that's where I will be ordering biaxial cloth from. Their website was the only one out of the three who listed prices online.

All three vendors sell over the counter to the public, and ship out of province.

One thing to note, I checked against the pricing on the US Composites website, and man, do we ever get shafted on pricing up here. For most items, the list price from USC was 1/2 to 1/3 what I would pay around here. Unfortunately by the time I factor additional shipping costs, exchange rate, brokerage fees.....it would likely be a wash.
 

JASinIL2006

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Nice to see you doing such a thorough investigation of your boat. I'd suggest you make sure to sample the transom around/below any thru-hull fittings (swim ladder bolts, etc.). Sometimes those are a place for water intrusion.

When I did my boat, I was surprised by how much of the foam near the hull was wet in sections where the decking still was dry and free of rot. I imagine it was only a matter of time before the moisture in those compartments started to cause problems. You might want to core sample the foam throughout, just to make sure it's not saturated or wet at the bottom (even if it looks OK on top).

Nice project you have going. I'm going to tag along and watch your progress!

Jim
 

bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Got a considerable amount of work done yesterday. I tented in the boat to try and keep the dust down in the garage. Then started cutting out the structure. I cut out the bulkhead just forward of the fuel tank, including the wings of the bulkhead which run up the sides of the hull. I also partially cut out the stringers along the ski locker, around 2-1/2 feet worth, and cut at an angle to improve the strength of the mated stringer when all is said and done. Also cut out what was left of the floor in the ski locker, the fibreglass was intact, but the plywood underneath was mush. Then started grinding everything down, I used resin fiber sanding discs with a plastic backing disk as recommended on other threads, and wow do they ever work well. I used 36 grit and it chewed through the old glass.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

The first picture is of the ski locker floor removed, the stringers cut out, and the centre portion of the bulkhead forward of the fuel compartment.

The second photo is of the remainder of the bulkhead removed. The outer parts were really not in too bad of shape, but might as well replace them anyway since I am going this far.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Here is a pic after the grinding, the camera had a whole lot of trouble focusing!

The second pic doesn't really show much, I just did a quick vacuum after the grinding.
 

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bvetter

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Re: 1999 Celebrity 190 - Engine Mount and Stringer Repair

Nice to see you doing such a thorough investigation of your boat. I'd suggest you make sure to sample the transom around/below any thru-hull fittings (swim ladder bolts, etc.). Sometimes those are a place for water intrusion.

When I did my boat, I was surprised by how much of the foam near the hull was wet in sections where the decking still was dry and free of rot. I imagine it was only a matter of time before the moisture in those compartments started to cause problems. You might want to core sample the foam throughout, just to make sure it's not saturated or wet at the bottom (even if it looks OK on top).

Nice project you have going. I'm going to tag along and watch your progress!

Jim

I took a couple of samples from the transom the other day, used a 1" hole saw and drilled in to the transom about 1" or so deep. I took two samples, one on either side of the keyhole, about 2-3" up from the base of the transom. They looked pretty good. The only thing I noticed was a little dry rot where the port stringer was in contact with the transom, I will likely just cut out as much as I can then fill in with new wood and PB.

As for the foam, it was dry. I pulled it all out anyway and will be replacing it after the new deck is in. The foam on the port side came out all in one piece (was stuck to the bottom of the deck, not the hull for some reason). The starboard side on the other hand was stuck to the hull. I had to break it out in smaller pieces.

Thanks for tagging along! I look forward to hearing your suggestions along the way!
 
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