boat rivet repair

[seanymph85]

I have a 1985 SeaNYmph 14R V-Hull boat, Big water model I believe and am wondering about how to replace leaking rivets on this boat. They are not a pop rivet of any kind that I can see nor are they a rounded head. The surface of the head inside and outside of the boat is flat.

I understand that you can try to "buck" them to tighten "seal" but have not tried that yet. The main area that appears to have any leaks is in the bow. From what I can tell from prior posts on this site and elsewhere the type of rivet to use is a closed end blind rivet. I contacted a link for a place in Michigan that I found on this site that sells them.

Does anyone have suggestions as to any special type of pop-rivet tool that is required to properly set these kind of rivets? Any special sealer suggestion, or another type of rivet that would be better. I think on one post if mentioned 5200and thought that referred to a sealer but I am not sure on that.

Any suggestions on this as to tools to use to "buck" these rivets and or tools or materials to replace them is appreciated.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: boat rivet repair

pop rivets will not work - they are hollow

you have to buck your existing solid rivits.

two ball-peen hammers are all that is needed to buck the rivets. hold one on one side against the rivet, and lightly smack the other side with the other hammer. I usually hold the one on the outside and hit the side on the inside

 

[jigngrub]

Re: boat rivet repair

Rebucking an already weakened rivet is just temporary and the rivet will loosen and leak again.

The closed end blind rivets are the easiest fix because it only takes one person to do it.

You can use the regular one handed setting tool for blind rivets up to 3/16' diameter, but you need the heavy duty tool to set the 1/4" dia. The heavy duty tool will make setting the 3/16" rivets easier, some of them can be pretty stout.

Applying sealant to the closed end blind rivets isn't really needed, but is extra insurance if you want to do it. 3M 5200 or a marine epoxy can be used.

I don't know if you saw this vid in your search, but in case you didn't:
1989 Sylvan Boat Rebuild Part 4 - YouTube

That is the heavy duty setting tool in the vid.

 

[Grandad]

Re: boat rivet repair

Bucking the existing rivets would be my first choice rather than replacing them with pop rivets. Done properly, you've fixed the leaks without changing from the original. You may need to enlist a friend's help. If you have a lot, an air tool would help. A few can be done manually as Scott says. It's particularly simple when both ends of the rivet are flat as you say. - Grandad

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: boat rivet repair

Post up some pix of your rig, and some of the leaking rivets.

Instead of a round head, their flat head:

Many of the tin boats use a large diameter brazier head rivet:

If you have access to both sides of the leaking rivet, you can use solid rivets & buck/drive them. Or use closed end blind rivets, 3/16" shank rivets can be tough to do w/ a hand riveter, but it's possible. But for $40-65 you can buy a harbor freight air riveter that many really like..

3M 5200 is a really aggressive caulk used to ensure a good seal to the hull when replacing rivets.

You should also consider using Gluvit or Coat-it on the interior of the hull to minimize the chance of getting more leaks later. They are both epoxy based & have to be covered, they break down when exposed to UV.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

pop rivets will not work - they are hollow

you have to buck your existing solid rivits.

two ball-peen hammers are all that is needed to buck the rivets. hold one on one side against the rivet, and lightly smack the other side with the other hammer. I usually hold the one on the outside and hit the side on the inside

The few that I know leak are in the lower part of the bow and with what I will refer to as a deep V I don't think I can readily reach both sides of the rivet by myself.

Someone had also put allot of silicone sealant on the inside and had sprayed inside and outside with a sealant like advertised on TV. It didn't provide a permanent seal is why I was considering other options such as bucking or other rivet replacement options. Thanks for the info!

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

A: I would have liked to see how you marked the center on that rivet to drill it out.
B: How do you know what size rivets including length/reach and diameter to use?
C: Do you happen to have a link to where the rivet tool can be purchased? Was it also JayCee in Michigan?

Yes, I had seen the video from my searches but watched it again.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: boat rivet repair

A: I would have liked to see how you marked the center on that rivet to drill it out.
B: How do you know what size rivets including length/reach and diameter to use?
C: Do you happen to have a link to where the rivet tool can be purchased? Was it also JayCee in Michigan?

Yes, I had seen the video from my searches but watched it again.

A. You can either:
1. Drill the head of the rivet off and punch the stem back through. Since your rivet heads are flat this should be easy, use a center punch to mark the center.
2. Carefully grind the head of the rivet off and drive the stem back through.

Trying to drill out the whole rivet rarely works well, being off center just a fuzz will cause an oval shaped hole and you have to redrill for the next size up.

B. Measure the hole diameter, 3/16" is the most common diameter. The length/reach is called the grip range with closed end blind rivets. You determine the grip range by adding the thickness of the 2 materials together, typically this will be .063 + .063 = .126" or 1/16"+1/16"=1/8". There is some "play" in the grip range so you don't have to be exact, just close. The .126-.250 grip range should work for you, but you may want to pick up a box of .020-.125 if your materials are thinner. It never hurts to have a selection of rivets on hand when you own an aluminum boat.

You can buy cheaper rivet setting tools at Harbor Freight instead of Jay Cees:
Search results for: 'Hand Riveters'

I wouldn't buy the cheapest HF tool, I'd buy the heavy duty tool and the swivel head setter.

 

[pauloman]

Re: boat rivet repair

folks report good luck stopping small leaks with thin mcu aluminum paint (aluthane (tm)). a few coats - it is thin and finds its way into the leak. The aluminum pigment (and mcu binder) fix the leak, albeit not always in one coat.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

A. You can either:
1. Drill the head of the rivet off and punch the stem back through. Since your rivet heads are flat this should be easy, use a center punch to mark the center.
2. Carefully grind the head of the rivet off and drive the stem back through.

Trying to drill out the whole rivet rarely works well, being off center just a fuzz will cause an oval shaped hole and you have to redrill for the next size up.

B. Measure the hole diameter, 3/16" is the most common diameter. The length/reach is called the grip range with closed end blind rivets. You determine the grip range by adding the thickness of the 2 materials together, typically this will be .063 + .063 = .126" or 1/16"+1/16"=1/8". There is some "play" in the grip range so you don't have to be exact, just close. The .126-.250 grip range should work for you, but you may want to pick up a box of .020-.125 if your materials are thinner. It never hurts to have a selection of rivets on hand when you own an aluminum boat.

You can buy cheaper rivet setting tools at Harbor Freight instead of Jay Cees:
Search results for: 'Hand Riveters'

I wouldn't buy the cheapest HF tool, I'd buy the heavy duty tool and the swivel head setter.

Would this be one you might be referring to? I would think it better than a basic tool and not as expensive as the JayCee tool. Heavy Duty 17-1/2" Hand Riveter With Collection Bottle Would you still suggest JayCee for the rivets. They are in Michigan as am I and the shipping cost might be better though there would be sales tax.

We are having a snow storm in our area so it may be some time before I can send closeup pix of the rivet(s) area on bow where a few are leaking. Problem is there is quite a bit of the spray on sealant down in the crack between where the bow "plate" or whatever it is called covers the joints from where the sides of the hull come together. I don't know how I could possibly get all of that old spray sealant out of there. I can see I will need to get one rivet our and check size of hole and to get some idea of grip range needed. I had looked up that Gluvit product some time ago and it does sound pretty good for the inside of the hull after rivet repair. I do have direct access to that area.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: boat rivet repair

As you can plainly see, trying to fix a leaky aluminum boat with sealant, goo, and paints doesn't work for long... if at all.

Yes, that's the heavy duty riveter and will set a variety of diameters of rivets.

Jay Cees has the best selection of rivets and that's where I buy all of mine.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

Rebucking an already weakened rivet is just temporary and the rivet will loosen and leak again.

The closed end blind rivets are the easiest fix because it only takes one person to do it.

You can use the regular one handed setting tool for blind rivets up to 3/16' diameter, but you need the heavy duty tool to set the 1/4" dia. The heavy duty tool will make setting the 3/16" rivets easier, some of them can be pretty stout.

Applying sealant to the closed end blind rivets isn't really needed, but is extra insurance if you want to do it. 3M 5200 or a marine epoxy can be used.

I don't know if you saw this vid in your search, but in case you didn't:
1989 Sylvan Boat Rebuild Part 4 - YouTube

That is the heavy duty setting tool in the vid.

So closed end, blind rivets. What material? I saw numerous options on JayCee's site. Aluminum with steel mandrel or what is recommended for something like this? Especially when going with 1/4" if those were needed. I will be trying to drill/grind one of when the weather breaks and will see what the hole size is>

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

Okay thanks I have saved that HF tool to favorites so I can try to purchase it at the earliest convenience. Got an issue with the trailer tongue that I need to get taken care of first.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

Can you or anyone else suggest what to use to carefully grind the head off of rivet being replaced so as to minimize risk of damage to hull metal. I don't have a grinder of any kind but could get some attachment for a drill if that would work and I knew the right type of grinding wheel attachment to get. Such as the shape and or coarse of fine etc. I would guess smaller would be better, not sure though.

Maybe a preformed round or cylinder shaped "grinding" type of attachment. Just pulling at straws here. I need to get one out so I can figure out what diameter and reach to order for replacement rivets.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: boat rivet repair

You might try a Sharp Wood Chisel and a Hammer to Cut the head off. It's aluminum and should cut fairly easily.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: boat rivet repair

A good rap w a center punch and a variable speed drill w a split point (135degree) bit.

Bounce the trigger a couple times to get a good divet in the rivet, and slowly drill off head. You aren't trying to drill thru the entire shaft of the rivet, just thru the head.

I used a 1/2" bit because it was the sharpest I had. No problem.

 

[sam60]

Re: boat rivet repair

Don't know much about tin boat rivets yet, but way back when I was a ventilation fabricator we had some systems that didn't allow "blind rivets". This is the Pexto tool I used back then. Tighten up the tin with the cylindrical oriface and finish with the mushroom.

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will keep all of them in mind and see what works best for me.

Dave

 

[seanymph85]

Re: boat rivet repair

I'll look into this option too. Was they any other name for the type of tool it is? I assume Pexto is the brand.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[sam60]

Re: boat rivet repair

I'll look into this option too. Was they any other name for the type of tool it is? I assume Pexto is the brand.

Thanks,
Dave

Mine is a "rivet set" but I'm not sure it would be proper for boats. The seams that I used the tool for had a negative pressure most of the time and were not used in water. Tin boat builders likely had a larger mushroom.