Fiberglass experts step forward please

Daniel1947

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I have a hypothetical question as to the ?finished? thickness of fiberglass; I don?t believe I have seen it addressed before and maybe there won?t be an exact answer, but here goes.
Hypothetically, I have a 4? x 4? sheet of ?? AB plywood. I have sealed it with a coat of resin. I am going to properly wet out and lay a layer of 1708 plus a layer of 1-1/2 oz. CSM over the surface. Anyone have any idea how much will be added to the final thickness of the ?? plywood? For example: let?s say I need to or want to increase the thickness by 1/8? to say 7/8? overall. This is just for general information?.I am not there yet. Thanks everyone.
Dan
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

It will not be an 1/8th inch but less then that. Once it is wet out and applied it is actually pretty thin.
 

Daniel1947

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

Thanks Bob, So just to make a "general" assumption...:facepalm:...if I was to measure, using a micrometer, the thickness of 1708, and just for fun lets say it measured 0.0625 (1/16") and I wet out two layers, it would be very close to 0.125" (1/8")? Thanks again.

Dan
 

Trooper82

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

I've got a piece I cut off my stringers.

1.5 oz CSM on both sides, 1708 on one side = .86 in.

1.5 oz CSM on both sides, 1708 on both sides = .94 in.

Using my el cheapo HF Calipers that only do 2 decimal places...take if for what it is worth...
 

Daniel1947

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

Thanks Trooper, this is just one of those questions. Trying to get some idea if somewhere during my restoration (when I do begin doing it) I discover I would need to build up an area, for some unknown reason, how much fabric would be needed to do so. Short of trial and error, I thought maybe someone here might have an idea. Your two examples are relatively close to 1.00 inch, so I am guessing the wood was 3/4" thick, or am I missing something?
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

Well, I don't know if I qualify as an expert but in my experience, I find it varies due to each person and the amount of resin they use but, a good laminate of 1.5 oz CSM with the proper amount of Resin and then a layer of 1708 again using the proper amount of resin will usually yield an increase to the thickness of the substrate of about 3/32 of an inch. If you glob on the resin (which is a bad thing) then it will be thicker but the laminate will actually be weaker.

Hope this is what you were looking for!:)
 
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Daniel1947

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

Thanks Wood and Trooper.....So I will assume (yes I know about doing that :) ) If the layout is done properly with the right abmount of resin, we can figure that one layer of 1708 would result in an additional thickness of just over 1/16" and one layer of CSM would be a little less than 1/16". Both lend credance to both of your figures.....Not sure why the thought went through my head, except I was thinking about how much fabric you would have to add to a transom to be sure the thickness was correct. However since I have an outboard, I am not too sure that the thickness of the transome will be as critical as an inboard.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

Correct, If you layup your transom like the link in my signature below, lays out for you, your thickness will be fine. It's more about getting it the right thickness so the cap will fit back on, but even that can be dealt with.
 

GT1000000

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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

I have a hypothetical question as to the ?finished? thickness of fiberglass; I don?t believe I have seen it addressed before and maybe there won?t be an exact answer, but here goes.
Hypothetically, I have a 4? x 4? sheet of ?? AB plywood. I have sealed it with a coat of resin. I am going to properly wet out and lay a layer of 1708 plus a layer of 1-1/2 oz. CSM over the surface. Anyone have any idea how much will be added to the final thickness of the ?? plywood? For example: let?s say I need to or want to increase the thickness by 1/8? to say 7/8? overall. This is just for general information?.I am not there yet. Thanks everyone.
Dan

You are basically spot on with your increase in thickness, that is assuming you do this to both sides of the plywood, as the nominal finished thickness of one layer of 1.5 Ounce CSM, {which by the way should be laid down prior to the 1708}, and one layer of 1708 are equivalent to approximately 1/16-3/32" thick...which also shrink slightly as it cures and as it ages over time...that is one of the reasons why the lams should not be overly resin rich, because as the resin shrinks, it cracks...
Remember, too, that the amount of pressure you apply when rolling the bubbles out of the lamination can affect the finished thickness to a certain degree.
Think of fiberglass cloth as being made of microscopically hollow tubes of glass fibers, that absorb the resin and become "filled", which is what creates the transparency...the amount of applied pressure can push some of the resin out of those "tubes" of glass and make them flatter as opposed to rounder...
I am talking about really minute differences that don't really apply to most of our boats. See Below...*

Another school of thought, which is valid, is that you do not need to apply a layer of CSM prior to applying the 1708 since it already has a 3/4 ounce layer of CSM bonded to it...this method would be closer to your desired finished thickness of 7/8"
I prefer the overkill method and almost always use a layer of 1.5 oz. CSM first, then the 1708.
In most boat related scenarios, 1/8"-1/4" variance is really not considered anything to worry about...

*Except in really high end, racing specific, high performance hulls where this is something to be concerned with...in most average pleasure type boats, the only places you will find a need for really close tolerances are the transom of an inboard/outboard [somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/8"-1/4" of tolerance] or the mechanical systems [such as engines and drives components where the tolerances are gauged in thousandths or 10 thousandths of inches]...
Heck, I have seen high end luxury yachts, that when viewed in dry dock are no where near symmetrical...they can have strakes on the bottom of the hull that are almost an inch of difference in their trajectory, from one side to the other...
 

Daniel1947

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Sep 22, 2010
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Re: Fiberglass experts step forward please

Kind of what I was looking at Wood....I really didn't think transom thickness for an outboard was as critical as an inboard. My thinking - as long as the cap fits back down around the transom, hanging the outboard will be fine as long as the original transom thickness has not been compromised. When I finally start on mine (I will start a new thread) I figure if I make my transom thicker, but don't make it thicker than the allowable space on the rear of the cap, I will only be strengthening the aft section. Thicker should be better than thinner. Hey Gus.....you need to stop writting books and get back to foaming the bassassin...:laugh: Seriously....always appreciate the sharing of your knowledge. Thanks again guys.
 
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