banshee transom and likely stringers

[banshee owner]

Hello

First post here so here goes i have 1975 vangaurd banshee and found out transom is at least partially if not all rotten. Someone before me has attemped a repair by way of steel plate on the back up over the top and into part of the splash well. I am going to attempt to rebuild it this winter. My plan is separate the top to gain open access to the transom. I have been doing a ton of reading so much so that my head is spinning. i pretty well know im going to need marine grade plywood the only boat supply place near me is a place called noahs marine supply they have meranti plywood. so my questions are:

Is meranti the right type to use? Meranti : Noahsmarine.com Im looking at the bottom listing only because it seems to be the cheapest but is it right. I think 18 mm is the way to go ans doubling it up ect.

Second question is i dont think my transom is that big so will the left over plywood be suitable for stringers(depending of course if there enough.)or should i use something different for stringers.

Third question is am i out to lunch on fiberglass. Im thinking of using economy fiberglass cloth(seems to be cheaper with minor flaws Economy Fiberglass Cloth : Noahsmarine.com
im looking at the top listing because it is again cheaper but is it right. The listing doesnt really say anything about strenght ect. If i should use another type then it is what it is. Some sort of direction in this would be much appreciated.The problem i have with fiberglass is everything i read says use biaxle and csm and listings on the site refer to mat and cloth and im not sure which type means the same. biaxle is actuallt mat or cloth.

im still up in the air about resin and have to price compare but if anyone could ring in about it i would be easily convinced.

i know this project is going to take alot of time which isnt really a hugh issue money savings is kinda important but on the other hand i dont want to compromise integrity buy using the wrong stuff.

I currently dont have the boat home to take pics and post but i will be bringing it home and im sure i will have many many more questions. i have found this site a excellent source of info and helps set my mind at ease as to how to do repairs. AT first i was ready to scrap the boat or pay someone then i found out just the cost would be too much. Im at the point now that i have come to accept that thee is a possibility of ruining the boat. I dont want to but if i do then i have some decisions to make. i love the look of the boat and it performed extremly well on the water and the kids had a blast on the tube.

 

[bakerjw]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

It will take time and money to get it right. Most likely you will be using polyester resin for the repair which means that you need to use CSM (Chopped Strand Mat) as well as 1708. WoodOnGlass has an excellent write up on material needs.

For transom wood, many of us use ACX exterior grade plywood. If it is sealed properly, it'll last as long as the boat. Marine or the other exotic plywoods is overkill and overpriced. You'd be better off saving the money to spend on better fiberglass.

For materials, I've bought from USCompsites.com as well as FiberGlassSite.com. There are many others, but keep in mind shipping as it gets expensive.

To put things into perspective. My 18' Stratos center console has now used more that 30 yards of 50" wide 1708 fiberglass and I'm around 20 gallons of epoxy at $75.00 a gallon. A large boat needs a lot of material to put right.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

"Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"


(Click the pic to download and view the PDF File)

View attachment MaterialsList.pdf



The above will help get you started. All the guys here on the forum can/will guide you to a successful completion of your project IF you have the sticktoittiveness to "Git Er Dun!" Get your pics posted and you'll get all the help you can stand!!!!

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

wow thanks for the quick replies

Wood thanks for the pdf will come in handy

not to sound stupid or question your advice but i thought exterior grade plywood wouldnt be as strong as marine because of the potential for voids in the plys.(i read that a few times)

using exterior grade plywood opens a whole lotta doors in regards to availability. As it stood i was going to make a two hour trip to toronto to get marine plywood but if can avoid that it will save time and money.

As soon as i get the boat back home i will post pics and begin my journey.

ONe other quick question in anyones experience removing the top of an older boat is usually hard to separate or fairly easy because things dry out and dont stick seal as well as when they were new

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Of course MG is the BEST but 95% or more of the guys here on the Forum use the Ext. Grade. True it does have some voids but some careful picking can yield some good results. If you can get some of the Arauco Brand it has almost NO voids and has 7 plys instead of the normal 5 plys. Really good stuff. Another good choice that will save a bit of money is MDO NOT MDF. Decapitating most older boats is pretty easy. Post up some pics and we can tell you more.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

i got thinking about the boat (seems to be a none stop thing now) and remembered i had pics on my phone



these arn't good pics to help rebuild but i gives a good idea what she looks like

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

That's one of my favorite hull designs. She looks "Fast" sittin on the trailer!!!!

De-Capitating her is simple. the red circle is your Rub Rail. Just remove the rubber insert and then remove the rivets or screws holding the aluminum rail. You can then remove the top cap. It might be attached with resin to the lower half at various points, especially back by the transom. If it is, use a sawzall to cut it free.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

i had it on the water labour day weekend and she moved along nicely. i have a video but have to figure out how to post it. i love the look of the boat as well

 

[bakerjw]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

i got thinking about the boat (seems to be a none stop thing now)

Just wait until you get deep into the restoration. It can be almost an obsession.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

haha baker im afriad of that lol

Wood you made mention to Arauco Brand plywood the only plae here that has it is lowes and lowes website says its pine plywood. Is this the same stuff your refering too. Only reason i ask is pine is considered a softwood and wanted to make sure it was the right stuff i was looking at.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

That's it and even though it's pine, it is excellent quality stuff, laminations are from 100% waterproof ext. grade glue (same as marine ply) and as stated they use 7 plys instead of 5 which makes it much stronger and there are practically NO voids in the plys. I Love the stuff and highly recommend it. Once its encapsulated in resin and if you always predrill and coat your holes and hardware with a quality marine sealant such as 3M's 4200 or 5200, your transom will last 40+ years. 1 1/2" of this stuff will yield a super strong transom that will hold your motor with NO problems and make excellent stringers and decks.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

YA SOLD me on it lol the store here has 4 3/4 inch sheets. Is 3/4 over kill for the deck or 5/8 a better choice

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

If your'e gunna pour foam below then 5/8 would be fine, if not, i'd go with the 3/4"

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

so Ive been researching again and looking at epoxy resin east system epoxy seems to be the cheapest where i can actually get it in a store front. The only thing that has me concerned is in the properties it states "Increased Flexibility" but right above that it states "Exceptional Strength" these statements have me a little confused. so now im questioning if i should go with this. I wanna try saving the most money i can but not compromise the project. i will be looking into other options of places to buy but no sense overloading the sense with 200 different prices when i can overload them with 50 lol

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

Those statements are not contradictory, although they would appear to be.

I'm not familiar w/ East System epoxy, but I don't think their products would be any less effective then most of the boat repair types of epoxy offered by others. Unless it's significantly less then half the cost of another 'name' brand, like WestSystems.

Here in the states, the supplier I would pick for epoxy, US Composites, is @$75/gal including the hardener plus shipping. WestSystems will run me @$100/gal including the hardener plus shipping.

Those are both a gallon of resin plus hardener, so it's total mixed volume will be more then a gallon.

From another vendor, I can buy low cost resin & hardener that when mixed will total 1gal, for $50+/- delivered. I decided it isn't worth using an unknown vendor & product as a guinea pig, since for about the same cost per unit of mixed epoxy, I can use the $75 US Comp epoxy that has been widely used, and in a vast majority of cases, it's yielded exceptional & completely satisfactory results.

Why epoxy instead of poly resin?

Is polyester resin hard to find or hashigh haz mat shipping in Canada?

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

i can get poly as easy as epoxy but from what i was reading and feel fre to correct me if im wrong but poly doesnt sem to have great bondability to wood or at least with alot of extra prep. i was also under the impression that when im laminating the plywood together poly wouldnt hold as well as epoxy. Maybe where i was reading it they were trying to persuade ones judgement and making it sound like epoxy was the only way to go. sorry i cant remember where i read it but can find it when i have a little more time im working so in betwen jobs i can research things. we have a napa store here i can get a product called evercoat poly and its about 270 for 5 gallons 295 for osmeone walking of the street. but i also have to get hardener but i would save shipping and handling fees and its right down the road from where i work. they also have epoxy but havent checked prices of it.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

the epoxy resin was marine resin as well

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

There's a LOT of debate about Epoxy and Poly. Bottom line is this. Your boat is made from Poly. Poly will adhere very well to Poly as long as you grind off the old layers and get down to the good, which you WILL be doing. Poly's waterproofing characteristics are good, not as good as epoxy, but good enough for boats. The facts you read about are misleading in that poly would have to be left immersed in water for many decades before a miniscule amount of water would ever penetrate the laminate. Epoxy is stronger...TRUE. Again the difference between the two is not enough to make a big difference when choosing to restore your boat. One thing to consider is, if you are wanting to use Gelcoat you must use Poly because Gelcoat does not adhere well to epoxy at all. Gelcoat is a poly based product and therefore likes to have a poly based substrate to stick to. I'd recommend you use Poly to restore your boat. That's me. Your boat, your choice. Just make sure it's a laminating Poly resin with NO wax. You can buy some surfacing wax to add to the last layer for the transom and deck

"Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

You can use epoxy if you'd like. It does offer better bonding, strength & waterproofing then polyester resin does.

Your boat is likely made w/ polyester resin, so poly would certainly do what you need done.

No matter which you pick, you'll need to grind to fresh fiberglass anywhere you're laying up resin & fiberglass anyway, so poly will bond to that fresh glass.

As WOG also suggests, poly will work

 

[banshee owner]

Re: banshee transom and likely stringers

i knew there was a reason to come to this site. now back to the research for prices lol. turns out the epoxy resin i was looking said that wax rises to the top making a hard surface so that in itself tells ma there is wax in it. i guess i should just bite the bullet and get the stuff that tried and true ehh. im my own worst enemy sometimes.