1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

[Arawak]

Hi All...

I have recently acquired an 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 "hydro-vee" 14' runabout, for the purposes of making it into a fishing boat:

My thought is to turn it into a centre console with the batteries and fuel tank mount below the sole with a view to an uncluttered boat. This will be a complete grind down to the bare hull and rebuild. This boat will be used for fishing small local lakes, large river systems (St Lawrence), and the Great Lakes (when the weather is right and and not terribly far from shore). Something like this:

Looking for advice on a few points.

1. These hulls are apparently filled with foam below the sole, and have no stringers. Should I just refill with closed cell foam (after installing my battery boxes, conduits, and fuel tank mount), or should I consider putting in stringers? My primary concern is that the foam may absorb water. I'd like to add foam, but on a bed of 2" blue styrofoam which from experience I know will not hold water. Not sure how structural this would be or if the original foam was structural in any way.

2. Should I paint the inside of the hull with epoxy (possibly thinned with acetone) to seal the polyester? My last rebuild slowly leaked water into the sealed air cavity I built between the sole and the hull.

3. Do I need a bilge running the length of the boat? It looks like these hulls have only a small bilge in the stern and most of the hull is sealed and filled with foam. Perhaps I could make a bilge out of conduit to allow the battery boxes and the box for the fuel tank to drain into the back.

4. Most of the folks who have done these runabout to centre console conversions seem to have re-used the cap and bonded exterior plywood under it to add stiffness. Is there a good reason to do this? It seems to me that it would be easier/cleaner/stronger to laminate a thin gunwale on the inside, and build a cap out of okume plywood that rests on this. I'd just need a thin layer of cloth, compared with a couple thick layers to prevent fir plywood checking.

Thanks in advance!

 

[matt167]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

The cap provides structure to the boat, so you want to keep the cap in some form. You should keep the splashwell and a small bit of the front for support.. These boats rely on the foam as structure so you need 2 part pourable foam to keep it structural

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

If you build it like the example you posted you should be fine. The example has a bow deck as well as interior hull sides that I would assume have poured in foam as well. this combined with the underdeck foam would make a very strong hull design. If in fact the hull has no stringers then the foam IS structural and will need to be replaced. Properly laminated Polyester resin should NOT allow water to penetrate it's surface. If there are bubbles trapped in the resin/glass lamination then yes it can and will happen. Good Solid laminations will not allow water penetration. It's all about the installation. Bad epoxy applications will do the same.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

You should take a look at sleeper6's runabout to fishin' boat thread:

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ject-log-runabout-fishing-machine-507523.html

Personally I would find a 14 footer too small for a CC, but that just might be me.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

You should take a look at sleeper6's runabout to fishin' boat thread

Seen it, it was the final straw

Sadly, I don't have his skill or attention to detail (or access to welding/painting equipment) so mine will be a bit more workboat finish.

This 14' is considerably larger than my current 14' or Sleeper-6's. Very wide and deep but still small enough to load/unload on my own. Just want room for 1 or 2 to fish comfortably... I find any more than that tends to be crowded even on a 17' Princecraft.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

If you build it like the example you posted you should be fine. The example has a bow deck as well as interior hull sides that I would assume have poured in foam as well.

Yep, that's exactly the plan, minus some locker space on the sides.

So no concerns about foam absorbing water?

Properly laminated Polyester resin should NOT allow water to penetrate it's surface

I've always read and been told that polyester and vinlyester are not waterproof, which is one of the reasons for gelcoat. That said the last rebuild was a very poorly constructed boat with pitiful lamination, which may have been the problem. I'll know more once I get the old foam out, but I'm told these Chryslers are well made and somewhat overbuilt. I like overbuilt

Ok, so do I pour the foam and cut it flat before I lay down the sole, or put the sole in, cut some relief holes and pour/pump the foam in? Never worked with this stuff before.

Thanks!

 

[matt167]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Lay the sole down and cut holes with about a 3" hole saw. The plugs can be extracted from the saw and replaced when done. Never cut the pour foam except to level the overflow from the holes, as once cut it can absorb water faster

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Never cut the pour foam except to level the overflow from the holes, as once cut it can absorb water faster

Ah ha, did not know that. Maybe I'll seal the cuts on the holes too.

A couple years ago I hit a rock in my father-in-law's 3 year old Princecraft and put a big gash in the keel. We made to shore with water coming up over the sole, and the boat sat like that for a couple hours until I was able to get her out of the water on the trailer. That boat dribbled out water for the next 3 days.... I can only conclude that it was held in the foam. Been skeptical of foam since then.

However, not having to shape, cut, tab in, and lay up stringers is a deal, and being able to fill it after the sole is in is even better.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Found another thread where someone rebuilt the 15' version of this boat: http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ger-151-winter-project-first-boat-449471.html

Seems to confirm no stringers.

Woodonglass you recommended 4lb foam there... still sound right?

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Ok, I guess I have all the answers I'm going to get... deconstruction has begun. Will start a new thread tonight with photos.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

I guess i'll stick to this thread. Here are some more before pictures:



My dad has enthusiastically attacked the deconstruction while I'm at work, and now we are here:



Last night I went over after work. We turned the motor over with the starter, but didn't try to start it. That can wait until it gets too cold to epoxy. We removed the motor, and took the cap off. Unsurprisingly, the transom and all the wood is rotten. The transom is 1.5" thick though... they weren't fooling around! There was a rather poor repair job in the the bilge area, looks like there may have been a crack on the chine. I'll know more when I get it all cleaned out.

The foam is utterly saturated with water, so I started chipping it out. I'm curious to see how much this hull will weigh after it's all out.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Dad spent the day getting the last of the fittings removed and put away for reuse, and tackled removing the foam. Here's where he ended up:



At this rate it will be all ready for me to grind out the tabbing and what's left of the stringer in the middle on Saturday. I picked up a tyvek suit, respirator, and goggles.... last couple times I didn't have these and worked with a t-shirt tied around my face

Thinking I'll either replace the middle stringer with plywood, or maybe I'll get some douglas fir strips and laminate up something.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Today was my first real chance to do any meaningful work. Unfortunately the weather wasn't great, so I ended up spending some of my time jerry rigging a rain shelter.

My dad had gotten even more of the foam out:

so I decided to tackle getting the old transom out. I set the skill saw depth to a little less than the transom depth and made a bunch of cuts:

Using a couple chisels and a small grinder with a cutting blade I worked away at it and ended up with this:

Actually, a little further than that but I forgot to take a picture before I left.

I ground out most of the old tabbing and removed some of the stringer. It's a pitiful little thing, two strips of 3/8" plywood about 2" high. There's nothing to allow bilge water to drain out of the offset hole, so when I replace it I'll leave a hole for this purpose right where it butts up against the transom. I'll likely make the new one 6" or more tall at the transom, and taper it down to its original height or thereabouts.

Tomorrow I'll finish off the transom and grind out the old tabbing, including the sole tabbing. If I get ambitious I might get started on the new transom. Think I'll laminate up the 4 layers of 3/8" ply with Titebond 3, and bond it into the hull with PB. Then two layers of bixaxial and tabbing, all epoxy.

I bought a respirator and pair of goggles... makes grinding fiberglass so much better. Man I wish I had those years ago when I worked in the marina!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

I would install 3 full height conventional stringers in that boat to support the deck during construction and to fasten the decking to so the foam doesn't raise/bow it. I know the hull doesn't need the structural support, but it'll make decking and foam installation much easier.

I frame up a deck/bilge well at the transom drain and pour the rest of the below deck area solid with foam.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Definitely going to frame the bilge back in (there was one there originally), but I think full height stringers would compromise the lateral support from the (5lb) foam, since it would be separated into three sections running the length of the hole. Will also be extra work/time and expense.

My dad raised the question of foam lifting the sole too... I plan to cut several large relief/pour holes to prevent this, then tack the sole in place with epoxy and pour foam. Was researching foam and saw that they use it in construction to raise concrete slabs!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Expanding foam can be pretty powerful:

The do's and don'ts of expanding foam - YouTube

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

My great plan of putting the batteries below the sole is not looking so great as I think about it. I'd need to make the battery boxes watertight so that they didn't fill with water if it rained, but I also need regular access to them to check/fill water levels. Lead acid batteries produce hydrogen when charging, so now I'd also need to plumb in some ventilation.

I was just hoping to move some weight forward and low, but this is getting more complicated than I had envisioned. Think I'll put the two trolling batteries under the passenger seat in front of the console. Was hoping to use that for storage, but oh well.

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Expanding foam can be pretty powerful:

The do's and don'ts of expanding foam - YouTube

Bloody hell! :laugh:

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Heading back over to my Dad's to do some more work today. Thought I'd post a couple motor pics before I went:

 

[Arawak]

Re: 1972 Chrysler Charger 118 conversion

Got the rest of the transom removed, just a little bit of scraping (thinking powerwasher) left:

Took the hose and washed her out so that I could get at the tabbing. There's still a little foam up in the bow.

Managed to get a 37 gallon aluminium fuel tank for free (just had to remove it from the old boat).

Of course, I don't need 37 gallons, 10 is plenty. Going to call around and see if someone will cut it down to 20" (it's 6' long right now) and weld it for me. Apparently there's a radiator shop that does such things.

By the end of the day I had a lot of the tabbing ground out, and the stringer removed. Glad I decide to take it out, it was saturated with water.

So later this week I will finish the grinding out, and start putting things back together. Dad made a cardboard template for the transom, so I'm going to have to make a trip to the lumber yard to get some exterior plywood. It will take 6 layers of 1/2" fir ply to put her back as she was, and then I'll put 2 layers of biaxial over that.