77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

[seanol]

Hey guys!
I have a project I am just starting and wanted to see if you all had some direction for someone new to this experience. I have read some of the threads here and will continue to read (you guys have a ton of information to go through!) as I start my project.

I found a 77 CV23 for sale or trade on craigslist. Traded my Raptor 660 quad for it and now it is all mine. I knew it would be a project and fully anticipate a large amount of work. But the opportunity to own one of these crafts and maybe repair the open bow and make it work is what attracted me to the project.

At first I was leery as I did not know if I could tackle something like this but after seeing all your threads I am giving it a try.

First question is that the cap does not fit flush on the bow of the boat:

I am thinking that if I cut out the front cross member I can get it to sit down:

I have cracks at each corner of the cap where the hole was cut:

I was thinking about going a little wider on the cut and rounding the corners. Could I remove the cap with the opening cut in without it cracking? I am thinking that may not be possible without a lot of reinforcement.

The floor is newer that the original and looks fair. I can't tell what is underneath but there is no soft spots on it:

The engine bilge has issues. Starboard side engine mount and side is rotted away and I am sure the foam is water logged:

I think I know the answer but would you guys remove the floor and start from the beginning? I think I can redo the bilge without disturbing the floor but I will always be wondering what is underneath. How do you guys get the engine mounts in the right place? Mine are steel plates that are lagged to the wooden mounts. I am thinking I will have to put the engine in and align it to the outdrive, then mount the plates, taking the engine out again to secure them.

This will be a long project but I will update as I go along.

Thanks in advance,
Sean

 

[pckeen]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Neat looking boat - yes, if the foam is waterlogged, and you have rotten structure underneath some of it - replace the floor. Welcome to iboats, and I look forward to following along.

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Peter,
Would you take off the cap or try to complete with it on?

Thanks for the support and advice. I don't think the deck will be easy to get up but every journey starts with the first step.

Regards,
Sean

 

[chconger]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Hi Seanol

Cool looking boat. I will want to keep track of this one.

Generally (from what I see hanging around here for the last few months) the cap needs to come off of to replace transoms in outboard's only. For an I/O such as yours, you should be able to skip that step.

If you can get access to the top of the wood in your transom, then I don't see a need to pull the cap.

Someone already replaced the deck. Rotten engine mount. Smart money would be your going all the way in.

Cheers
Chris

 

[chconger]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Regarding this:

"..... the cap does not fit flush on the bow of the boat:..."


Does it matter? Looked fine with the rub rail on (at a distance)

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

The cap should fit over the hull, not like this:

It won't allow the rubrail to fasten thru both the cap & the hull, and reinforce the joint, as well as allow you to attach the cap to the hull 1st, behind the rubrail. IMHO, it should not be left as is.

Trooper82 had a similar problem & was able to coax the joint back together.

BTW: For reference, it's called a shoebox joint, cap (like the lid on a shoebox) fits over the hull (the box part of a shoebox)

Yep, you'll probably need to remove the new bulkhead:

Poor workmanship/fiberglass work, stress of the bow not fitting together properly, stress while lifting the cap off the hull, insufficiently radi on inside corner all are likely the cause of the cracking:

Typical decks are 3/4" thick, this looks more like 1.5", it may be a new 'solid' deck overlying a soft deck:

All that ^^^ plus rotten motor mounts, leads me to believe you're likely facing a complete tear-down & rebuild.

Friscoboater is taking a break from finishing his CVX rebuild, but does a really good job documenting his work. Take a look at all 3 of his threads:
1986 Carlson CVX-18 Restoration

1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration (SPLASHED!!!)

1981 Glastron SX-190 Rotten Transom Replacement and Re-power!

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Jbcurt00,
I read all of Friscoboaters threads, multiple times!

I agree with your assessment, just wanted someone besides me to say it! When I was in the "cuddy" area between the fore and aft I could see daylight through the hull where the joint was not made properly. I will have to remove all the bulkheads. In doing that, it just might be easier to remove the cap.

I am this far....

Thanks,
Sean

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Might be best to support the hull as best you can, remove the PO (previous owner) mods 1 at a time until you can jockey the cap back onto the hull correctly. Then fasten them together, use a screw thru a washer on the exterior & a small block of wood on the interior side. You want the cap firmly attached to the hull, just not permanently, not yet.

Once you get the cap & hull together correctly, make sure there isn't any twist, bows, divots, hooks or any other type of defect or deflection in the hull & cap. Once the cap is on correctly, you want to make sure that none of the rest of the PO's glasswork didn't also create problems.

This may mean you need to carefully dismantle the deck & stringers too. These are major elements in the system of support for the hull.

Once you've made sure there are no other alignment problems, you'll need to adjust the support cradle under the hull to keep the hull in it's new correct shape. Then when you begin the put back, you won't have any problems reinstalling the cap.

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

OK, got a bit more done.

First, remove all the carpet. What a chore! I think the po used 50 tubes of liquid nails!


Then I decided to get in there and cut all the bulkheads to see if I could remove the top. Success:


Top off:


Another view:


Top on trailer:


Now I have a ton of work to do to get to hull fiberglass. There is rot everywhere. Couple that with record humidity and it is beer thirty right now. Cold Newcastle, here I come!

Thanks,
Sean

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Haven't given up yet. SWMBO gave me $100 to get some supplies. Now I have to remove the gimbal housing and get all the wiring and hydraulics out of the way. I will try to get some done during the week for an update by the weekend. I did say it might be a long restore...
Thanks,
Sean

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

More work today. I started by removing the drive. Broke one stud but otherwise non eventful. Once I put it aside I started the deconstruction. I found rot everywhere. The fiberglass on the deck peeled up in sheets and the top floor plywood was screwed with regular drywall screws to a particleboard underlayment. I scored the deck with a circular saw and started to pry up various sections. I also removed the foam from the rear behind the transom. Full of water.

know you need pics so here they are:

Back foam on starboard rear removed:

Stringers:

Stringer rot:

Port side rot:

More rot:


I know it can be saved. Just glass over, right?
I will start tomorrow getting the rest of the floor up and see if I can get to the bulkheads. Once I have most of the stuff removed I will put the cap back on and start to grind down glass and design stringers. Boat should be about 300 lbs. lighter after this!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

That'll be a sweet go-fasty boat when you get her all fixed up!

... and it's always good to see someone that isn't in denial that their "new to them" boat may have issues, and I commend you for jumping right in.

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Couple more pis:

Starboard side overview:


Trash from today:


Thanks for looking,
Sean

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

That'll be a sweet go-fasty boat when you get her all fixed up!

... and it's always good to see someone that isn't in denial that their "new to them" boat may have issues, and I commend you for jumping right in.

Thanks for the encouragement! I started the process by looking over all the projects here. you guys inspired me as well as giving me the knowledge I needed to determine the damage and how to go about fixing it. Once done I should have a fun boat for the entire family. My biggest worry is how to frame and make the open bow section. Then upholstery, but I have read a number of threads on that so I am looking out for a sewing machine for that part. Will be a while though....

Sean

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

One question,
When I pulled off the fiberglass it looked like the wood had not soaked any resin in at all. If I coat the boards with resin first, the fiberglass should stick better and the wood should be protected, right?

The PO obviously did not use the right glass and I have found large weave roving all over. I am planning on CSM and 1708 alternating layers to build up the glass.

That right?
Thanks,
Sean

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

This link will give you some insight as to what all you will be doing..."Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

This link will give you some insight as to what all you will be doing..."Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

WOG,
I have read many of your posts and I am honored to have your experience on this project. I read all of your links in your signature so I am using a "page from your book" so to speak. It was one of the first posts I read!

Thank you so much,
Sean

 

[Trooper82]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Sean - should be a fun project...as others have said good that you are jumping right in... We will be cheering you on!

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

Trooper,
Thanks! It was an interesting day.

One thing about the desert, it is a dry heat. So when you have humidity the temps can seem unbearable. How you guys in the south and east do it, I don't know.

Started early and got a lot of the floor and foam up. This stuff was bad. 3/4 ply over 1/2 particle board and more deck screws than I have ever seen! Most fiberglass came up in sheets. Got hot so I took a break to help a buddy with his truck.

That is when murphy came by! I was helping my buddy and his friend change out the PCV valve. It had two hoses wrapped around it. Thinking (or not) that they were vacuum, I pulled one off. Hot coolant all over my hand! After a couple of choice words I got it changed and diagnosed a failing coil pack.

Having them here I put them to work and reduced the trash pile to 8 black garbage bags for tomorrows pickup.

One other thing, I decided t be smarter than the previous day and wear a long sleeve shirt. My arms were itching last night so I thought it would help. I forgot about it and went to wipe the sweat out of my eyes. You guessed it, fiberglass in the eye!

So here I sit, letting you know where I am, Newcastle in hand and a compress on my eye. Makes typing fun!

I know, pics or it didn't happen:

Looking forward:


Looking back:


Closeup:


Thanks,
Sean

 

[seanol]

Re: 77 Glastron Carlson CV23 Open Bow rebuild

I do have one question today. I looked at the hull and it seems to be warped where the bulkhead was holding the bow up:


Other side:


I am hoping that when I put on the cap for the rest of the demo the cap and hull will meet again in the proper orientation. It gets hot in the sun and I am hoping it may help it go back to the original shape.

Thoughts?

On a side note, the foam held in a ton of water. I removed most of it yesterday and found the bilge an inch deep again this morning! I am thinking about Ooop's version of foam with plastic down first but I really would like the foam touching the hull as I think this adds a lot of rigidity to the hull. I plan on making a number of channels through the bulkheads but I know it will find any crevice not filled. As this was never meant to be an open bow, I also need to take into account how I am going to build the front section waterproof and drain what does enter this section back to the bilge.

Seems I spend one day working for every three days thinking! Still loving it though. After looking at all the projects here on the board I am confident I will find a way around any obstacle. You guys don't let anything stop you!

Thanks,
Sean