1968-71 Naden N-16 Big Fisherman Restoration

[pckeen]

So here's the story. Last year, I picked up a 1968 Starcraft Holiday, in very good condition, with a 1969 Johnson 2 stroke on it. We intended to replace the motor, and have done so, putting on a nearly new Yamaha F90. The long term plan is to restore the Starcraft, but the interior is in good shape, nothing needs to be done immediately. However, since the Yamaha has been installed, I've noticed a bit of flex in the transom, which I (and the dealer), thought was solid. So this may be a project sooner rather than later. I'll post on the Naden shortly...that's the next part of the story.

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Shortly after buying the nearly new motor, this Naden Boat came up for sale for $100 - locally, that's a great price - so I picked it up, and I plan to restore it over the next couple of months. This Naden is certainly pre-1972, as it has no hull identification number, but I'm guessing, from the little I can find, that it is a 1950s or 1960s model.

So first question - can any of you identify the year of this boat?

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Here are a few photos of the interesting features on the boat - a cleat, one of the somewhat faded decals, and the Transom Bracket. I'm hoping that this will help date the boat. Any guesses as to the date?

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

The aluminum in the boat is in good shape, with no sign of holes, significant dents, or any other problems. The wood inside it was clearly added long after manufacture, so I plan to replace all the wooden seats, strip out the casting deck, replace the foam inside the seats (there isn't any there now), then put in some new epoxy coated marine plywood as new seats. The red and white paint you can see on the outside looks like house paint that was applied with a brush - it is now peeling badly all over. Inside the boat is green house paint - again, peeling all over the place. I plan on stripping all the paint - I'll try to use a pressure washer, followed by paint stripper if that doesn't work. Any advice you have this would be appreciated.

I'm guessing that it will need a new transom. It looks to me like someone tried to strengthen the transom with some angle iron. The old transom doesn't appear to be rotted, but the wood is clearly quite cracked, and at some point, someone has replaced the transom cap, and simply screwed it back into place.



So next question. Where would you start on this restore? My plan is to remove the interior seats etc. first, then strip, then take the transom out. Does this make sense or would you do this in a different order?

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

The next question I had was about the gunwales. There are a large number of holes in the gunwales behind the bow cap. the bowcap itself is either not original, or if it is, it was removed and replaced, or removed, reduced in size, then replaced. The reason I say this is two fold. First, the cap is screwed in with regular household screws, some of which are rusting, some of which are not. Second, the gunwales themselves have a bunch of holes in them - 20 to 30 - that extend about 2 feet down the gunwales from the bow cap.

What advice do you have on repairing or covering up the holes in the gunwales? Is there a product - a rubber fender for example, that I can use to cover all the gunwales to hide this damage?



Oh yes - why am I doing this? I want a boat to practice on before trying to restore the Starcraft.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

4 years ago someone posted a Nadan thread:Recently purchased old Naden boat

Apparently Russ Naden could be reached @ Naden Scoreboards:

All you need to do is Google search; naden scoreboards, and you should get a website, although I'm not sure if it's still around. Once on the naden page you should be able to find a phone number and E-mail address. That should help. Sounds like you've found quite a sweet rig. Good Luck and happy boating!

An advanced search for Naden @ iboats yields 51 threads, some are about Nadens

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

This isn't listed in the Library, but it is buried there:
Naden Boats

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Thanks - the original Naden Industries websites appear to be down now. Thanks for the link to the Naden boats - my difficulty is there is a lack of pictures/brochures on Naden boats, so it is hard to date. I have no idea of the model number on the boat.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Many 50's & 60's boats didn't change year to year, they were produced, stockpiled (for lack of a better term) and given a model year designation when they were sold (shipped maybe).

If you go thru those Naden boat threads, there's at least 1 that has some details about where to look for stamped #'s on Nadens. They are often VERY VERY hard to find if you are just looking over the hull. Once you know where to look, sometimes it's easier. If you find it, it may be similar to:
59 N-15WW <<--- a 1959 model N-15WW Naden 15' 3" which had a 74" beam

If you look thru the Naden info @ FG's site, you might be able to narrow it down to a year range (like 1957-59, or whatever the groups are) based on the dimensions listed for each model boat.

For example (not accurate, but similar) Starcraft runabouts of the 60's were very similar, but had slight differences in maximum beam (width, usually measured across the helm seat), transom beam, overall length (measured from transom to bow along the boat's centerline) or gunwale length (measured from transom to bow along the gunwale). Helps us narrow our years down for Starcrafts, but often actual color scheme & interior layout can be just as helpful.

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Thanks JB. I'll dig back into those sites to see what I can find. And by the way - like the starcraft. It looks very similar to mine - same dash layout, style of finishing inside the boat, steering wheel, ladder, glovebox, most of the decals on the side, windshield, and style of finishing on the bowcap. Mine was registered as a 1968 Starcraft, and I know for sure that I had a 1969 Johnson mounted on it. I have chucked up a couple of images of it, in addition to the ones above, just FYI. Even the serial numbers on the plate by the controls are (relatively) close.

Now back to the Naden. We had a large amount of rain last night, so in the drier weather today, I finished replacing the lights and rewiring the trailer that the boat is on. In the course of that, I moved the trailer, and discovered two rivets that are leaking in the bottom of the boat.

What equipment do I need to replace the rivets in a boat, with proper marine grade solid rivets? Is this something an amateur can reasonably do, or should I leave this aspect of the restoration to a professional? The reason I ask is in searching this topic on youtube, and on the internet, I have found several sites where people seem to be replacing rivets with a air powered rivet gun, or with a device that looks like a pop rivet gun on steroids. I know that I shouldn't be using pop rivets from iboats. A local GOG (good old guy) told me that replacing rivets requires two people, a device to hold the rivet in, and a pounding plate - but that advice seems to conflict with what I am seeing on line.

I would prefer to replace the leaking rivets, rather than simply gluvit them.

Any advice would be welcome.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

You need to dig into the tin resto's here:
Starcraft Rebuilds and Restorations, they're all here!

You can use closed end blind pop rivets (available online, fasten-all, & others) & a large rivet gun, or an air riveter. They are much harder to 'pop' and depending on what size you need, they may be more then most can pop w/ a typical DIY pop rivet gun. Harbor Freight has a $60 +/- air riveter that most LOVE.

You can also use solid rivets, which is a 2 man job, using a ball peen hammer & a sledge hammer (as the bucking bar) which is the garage mechanic DIY equal to what your GOG is telling you. If he's an exceptional GOG, he might have the tools you need & BE the other half of your 2 man bucking team.


You will find numerous references for rivets, mostly using closed end blind pop rivets, in the SC resto's. YouTube has many good reference videos too.

Yes, replace leaking rivets, then do the coat-it/gluvit on the interior seams & rivets as a preventative, not a fix.

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

So I measured the boat, then dug back into the Naden links posted by JB. I measured it at 15' 9", with an original transom height of 16", and a beam of 67 1/2 inches. I compared those measurements with the boat measurements on the Naden link at fiberglassics (listed below). It looks like this boat is a 1968-1971 Naden N-16 Big Fisherman.

Does anyone know if you can re-name a thread?

Naden - Classic Boat Library

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Yep

Go up to your 1st post & click EDIT @ the bottom right corner...

When that edit window opens, in the bottom right corner click Go Advanced

There should be 2 long white text boxes at the top left of the Advanced window when it opens.

The upper, top most text box is the THREAD title. Edit it to what you'd like it to be

Submit or save is in the lower right corner when you're done....

The lower 1 allows you to name your post, the thread title doesn't change, but the Re: XXXXXX above each post changes...........

 

[pckeen]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Now for the fun stuff. After installing the canopy cover frame on my boat lift this evening, I went up to the Naden N-16, with the intent of taking out the seating. I was curious though, to see what shape the transom was in, so I took the transom cap off....which led to taking out the transom. The whole thing took about 3 hours.

I had thought that the transom would be held in primarily by rivets, but in fact, the whole thing was held in by bolts and screws, including the transom caps. I discovered that the transom that is on the boat now is probably not original. From looking at the 'before' photographs. I am guessing this was 'upgraded' at some point, to allow the boat owner to install a long shaft motor.

Got stumped towards the end, with the splash guard inserts. I ended up grinding the heads of those inserts off, then tapping them out - they came out quite easily. After that, I discovered the transom still wouldn't come out, so I scratched my head for a while, before realizing that there were three bolts still in the boat - the heads of which were covered in paint. After they came out the transom came out with minimal persuasion. All in all, I'm quite pleased by this.

The transom was 1 1/4 inches thick, and was still in reasonably solid shape, so I will be able to use it as a template. It was extremely heavy however, so I believe the whole thing was waterlogged. The plies on the plywood had begun to seperate.

All in all, quite a fun evening.

I was surprised by a few things. Below the Transom caps was a small rectangular piece of aluminum. It appeared to be there as a spacer to lift up that part of the transom cap directly above the wood of the transom. Has anyone seen this before?

Does anyone know the actual name for the aluminum insert that lets water drain out of the splashguard?

Lastly, what is the bolt with the hole in it at the back of the boat called? One of mine was in good shape, the other was fairly bent, so I'm guessing I may need to replace it.

I'm interested in knowing how long it takes to restore a boat like this, so I'm going to record the hours here, as I go. So far, 3 hours to select, buy and haul home the thing, and 3 hours for a transom removal - 6 hours so far.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1968-71 Naden N-16 Big Fisherman Restoration

:facepalm: had so much to say, had to say it twice, I reckon :watermelon:

deleted dbl post

 

[pckeen]

Re: 1968-71 Naden N-16 Big Fisherman Restoration

That's perfect. Thanks again JB!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Re: 16' Naden Restoration

Drain tube:

Transom/bow eye:

Both available from iboats

You will need to buy a Moeller flanging tool, or make 1 to flare the drain tube & get it to tighten down on both sides of the transom:

The piece of metal under the transom cap is probably all that's left of the original splashwell trim cap that probably covered the top of the plywood transom's edge, and ran under the end cap. Raising the transom height & changing it's shape (flat instead of U shaped), would make the cap not fit. But it probably still needed to run up & under the end cap to make it sit flat across the transom & gunwale...........

Originally, w/ a lowered transom the trim cap along the plywood should have been shaped something like my Holiday's:

 

[pckeen]

Re: 1968-71 Naden N-16 Big Fisherman Restoration

That is what the aluminum on the transom looks like - so my guess is that is what the original transom was.

So here's a question for any viewers. What makes more sense on this restoration - and for future motor selection - lower the transom back to the old size and shape, which would mean I have a 16" transom, and would mean that the boat would require a short shaft motor, or leave it at 20" as it is now, allowing a long shaft to be installed?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1968-71 Naden N-16 Big Fisherman Restoration

IFf you don't have a motor, find a decent 40-45/50hp motor and let it be the deciding factor. Short shafts are often harder to find, even in period closer model years. I'd recommend a reliable, simpler motor then many of the 60-s & early 70's motors. Johnson/Evinrudes were made in an electric shift, and although when they work they work pretty good (not unlike OMC Stinger I/O drives) but can be hard to find parts for.

A vintage late 50's 35hp seahorse would 'look' correct, and look good on the back:

It often has a leg extension to make it a long shaft, and you might be able to source parts to convert it to a short shaft.

As you tinker & dismantle the boat, think about the power you'd like to put on her. And start looking. If you get a specific engine in mind, it may take a bit to find it. But be flexible, might score a great motor (power tilt & trim too) off the back of a derelict boat.

It's a utility boat, probably 'should' get a tiller motor. See what you can come up w/ and then decide on the transom. A jack plate could even let you use either a long or a short..... Unless you're going to enter it into a boat show where a non-original style 20" transom will hurt you w/ the judges, it really is you boat.... What do you want it to look like?

 

[pckeen]

Re: 1968-71 Naden N-16 Big Fisherman Restoration

OK. Boat is torn down now. I spent about an hour and a half this evening - got the aftermarket floor out, seats off, and the aftermarket casting deck off. Turned out that a family of mice had been living in the foam inside the seats. There were runs through the foam and all kinds of interesting things.

My wife insisted on my showering when I got back inside. She disliked the new musk.:lol:




Whoever installed the aftermarket deck had used house screws, a bunch of which had rusted, and were quickly stripped when I tried to get them out. What was really maddening is he or she kept switching screw types, so I was constantly having to switch adapters on my cordless drill.

Fortunately, grinding down a few screw heads, and a little bit of cheating with a chainsaw got most of it out.

No real surprises, other than the pets, and the floor seems to be in pretty good condition. I see no sign of damage or obvious problems, which is nice. As you can see, it was kind of late when I finally finished.




Only one real question out of the teardown - in the front of the boat is a small raised platform (which still has an aftermarket two by four on it. The screws wouldn't come out, and it was getting too dark to continue). It is obviously part of the original boat, looks to be constructed in the same fashion as the seats. Does anyone have any idea what this structure was for? Here's an image of it.



Oh yes - hours - another hour and a half for the teardown. Time so far: 7.5 hours.