Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

[Shallowman]

Iam wanting to add a sumped area / bilge area to my boat . I see posts refer to the bilge area to allow water that may have entered the hull drain back to the bilge box area so it can be drained from the boat . My boat is alittle different since its a 2003 Carolina Skiff j 16 , with foam and my understanding is there are supports going from port to starboard side not regular stringers per say . I don't know if its consider a "bilge area" due to this , But mine came without one and i was told it could have ordered with or without one in 2003 , then 2004 / up model came with them .

Ive asked on the CS forum and heard some have added one no issues and others say not to ( no reasons as to why not , other then water could get trapped in the foam --- THIS makes no since as if anything has penetrated the deck or hull , there is currently no way water to exit either ......)


If one shouldn't be added can someone explain to me why ?

Theres a couple reasons i want to add it:

1) I cast net very often and it would allow me to put the bilge pump in the bilge box where the water would go into the bilge box area from the deck vs. having a bilge pump sitting on either side of the flatdeck

2) It would also allow me to clean up transom area by not using a transom mounted livewell pump and the hoses going over the transom

3) I plan on having the interior painted to freshen it up , so now would be the time to add it .



What iam not sure about if added is : do i cut the area out , remove foam and use Marine ply ( glassed ) to make a frame/box then glass that in . Or Just glass right from the deck to the foam after ive cut the area out ?

Iam thinking 8 in x 8 in would be big enough , any thoughts ?


Thanks

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

The Carolina Skiff...they are constructed similar to Boston Whalers... Inner and outer hull skins filled with foam, 100% composite construction...then as long as the boat is kept out of the elements by being covered when not in use and no UN-sealed holes are made to allow water to get into the foam, then the foam should remain dry...I mention this because if the foam is allowed to get wet, and becomes saturated, it will never dry out and it will affect the boat's performance...

All that being said, if you want to add a bilge, you could cut out a section of the deck and the underlying foam and completely and carefully seal it up as you mentioned, with either some Fiberglass cloth and resin, or both of those and create a box out of plywood...

Now, I personally would rather keep the boat wood-free and just seal it with the cloth and resin...

Just make sure you do all the proper prep, including grinding down any place you need to adhere the new 'glass to the old 'glass...a few inches is plenty...try and contact the manufacturer for information on the gel coat, so you can blend in the modification with the same color...

The through hull fitting should be thoroughly slathered with a high quality marine sealant, such as 3M 4200 or 5200...to prevent any water from getting between the inner and outer hull skins...

You can also fiberglass a ledge around the inside of the opening to provide a support for a removable hatch with a drain installed to allow the water into the "bilge"...

Hope this gives you a couple of ideas, and if possible post up some pics of the modification...before, during and after...

Others with more experience doing this kind of mod may pop in and give you some more Pros, Cons and Ideas...

Have fun!

 

[Shallowman]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Thank you GT1000000 , makes sense. I was wanting to do this without any wood aswell . I was planning on perhaps a 7 x 7 or 8 x 8 cutout and sanding out about 5 to 6 inches around the cutout so i could blend it nicely . Not sure what cloth would be best but iam going to look into it the best ways to layer it in . Also i'll look into the thickness it should be .

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Thank you GT1000000 , makes sense. I was wanting to do this without any wood aswell . I was planning on perhaps a 7 x 7 or 8 x 8 cutout and sanding out about 5 to 6 inches around the cutout so i could blend it nicely . Not sure what cloth would be best but iam going to look into it the best ways to layer it in . Also i'll look into the thickness it should be .

You're welcome...as for the cloth/layers to use...here is the way I personally would go about it...adjusting as necessary...

BTW, I mentioned I would like to keep it wood free, but you might want to make a small pad to lay in the bottom of the well to have a place for the bilge pumps' mounting screws to go into and if you use it, a float for automatic operation...
If you do, pre-coat with resin, and wrap at least once with a layer of CSM, all around...remember to round the edges to make the CSM conform better...and any screws you insert into it, make sure they are coated with a good quality marine sealant like 3M's 4200...

Make your cutout, try and leave all the corners/edges with a nice rounded profile {makes the fiberglass cloth conform more easily}...
On the deck face, create a slightly tapered surfaced starting from about 6" all around the opening, leading to and tapering to the opening of the cutout...
Sand the surface of the exposed foam smooth, and if needed, you could add either a thin layer of paste filler [as described below], or resin right before the application of the first layer of CSM...
I would use a combination of CSM [chopped strand mat] and 1708 Biaxial cloth to build up your layers...
Wipe everything down with Acetone, before application...
Pre-cut the first layer of CSM to overlap the deck surface by about 1-2 inches all around, down the insides and the bottom of the bilge...
Repeat with the 1708...
then with the CSM again, but to about 2-4 inches out from the edge...and again with the 1708...
finally do it all a third time all the way to the edge of the beginning of the taper on the deck...
Wet you pieces with catalyzed resin, pre-wet the surface a little and apply each layer...Having an assistant on hand can be a big help holding the cloth while you manipulate into place or mixing up batches of resin as you need them...
Let it all set up for about a day...
If you want a smoother finish, first sand down any 'nubs' or hairs, wipe with Acetome, mix up some thickened resin to a paste like consistency and smooth it over using a plastic putty spreader...if you use "Micro-ballons" to thicken the resin, it should be fairly easy to sand it smooth when cured...
The other way to get a smoother finish is to sand, and lay on either some CSM or "veiling material"...
Then finish it with your choice of surface, whether it be gel coat or paint...

With the three layers of alternating mat/cloth, it should be strong, water resistant and solid...

Hope this helps and if you have any other questions, holler back...I'll try to get you an answer...

Hey, don't forget to take some pics of the progress, I would love to see how it goes...

 

[Shallowman]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Decided to go ahead and do this . I marked out the area 6 in x 6 in , it seems rather small however . Will the length and width affect anything ? I'am thinking 8 in x 8 in . Going to start this weekend on it some , then iam moving forward on painting the interior after the box is complete .

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

As long as you have room to make all the connections and get to it for any future servicing needs...just an added thought...you could make it a round shape, say 8-12" in diameter and add a perforated deck hatch to it...

 

[Shallowman]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Ok , first part wasn't bad - rough cut and remove foam . Not wet at all :nono: , that made me happy . I do now have a question, where the transom /deck meet i cut right there and tried to get a straight cut into the foam . Theres still about 1/4 inch maybe a tad more foam there under the deck area . Hard to explain but if i remove that foam its actually under the transom . Liked the transom stopped at the deck and didn't goto the bottom of hull ? What do i do here , remove the foam or glass over the foam like the other 3 sides ? I guess iam concerned if i glass over the foam there and add the livewell pump , will it be fine ?

here a few pics .. again just cut and not smoothed out or anything

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Looks good the way it is, I would leave the foam under the transom and cover it like the rest...
The following is a guide to use for the rest of the job...Hopefully this guide is some help...actually saying how to do it and doing it are somewhat different and you'll probably have to make some adjustments as you go along...
If you are not sure of anything I mentioned, or if you feel I left something out, give a shout out and we'll get it straightened out...Also, if possible have a helper handy and have the thickened resin pre-mixed but leave it UN-catalysed until ready to use...same goes for having 3-4 half-liter batches of resin poured but again, UN-catalyzed...as you need them, add the catalyst, stir well for about a minute, then use...like I mention below, if you are working in a cool shady location, and keep your catalyst ratio to about .5%-.75%, you should easily get about 20 minutes working time...If you reach a stopping point and want the resin to finish getting hard, just pull it out in the Sun and leave it there for about an hour, that should make it hard, but not cured...curing can take as long as a couple of days, sometimes a bit longer...
1-Grind back the taper on the deck
2-Obviously, smooth the surface of the foam...
3-Wipe everything down with Acetone...
3A-Pre-cut and pre-fit and label every piece of CSM/1708 you plan to install...
3B-Rehearse/Practice doing the layup "DRY", to make sure you have everything you need in place and ready to go...
4-Mix up some thickened resin, we call it peanut butter around here, it is made using resin plus micro-ballons, instead of cabosil,
5-Use that thickened resin to create a fillet around the bottom edge and all four vertical corners...it will make the CSM conform better to the inside corners...
6-While the thickened resin fillets are still tacky and not yet firm, prepare some catalyzed resin, wet your pre-cut and pre-fit CSM on top of some cardboard, then transfer it and lay in your CSM layers...If you work in the shade, and catalyze the resin on the low end, say .5%, you should have plenty of time to get at least the Peanut butter fillets and the first couple layers of CSM installed, by doing it while the fillets are still soft, you can lay the CSM over the fillets and smooth the corners, thus avoiding having to wait for the fillets to harden, then sand them smooth before applying the CSM...
7-After that is done, you might want to consider making a wood base to attach the pump/etc...you can coat it with resin and "glue" it down with the thickened resin...
8-Finally add the finish layers of 1708/CSM over everything, then sit back and enjoy your favorite frosty beverage and admire your new bilge sump...the next day, if needed, you can add a layer or two of CSM to just the deck area/transom area to disguise any texture left over, then coat with the gel coat...
Always remember to wipe down with Acetone before any applications over a hard surface...
I know this is a lot of info, and probably missed some stuff...
Have Fun!

 

[Shallowman]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Great , thank you GT1000000 .

 

[Shallowman]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Had a friend finish it off for a great price .... Iam so happy with it . Just need to get it back together now .

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Adding a thru hull livewell pump and sump/bilge area

Wow! Looks like it turned out great!
Really nice job...:encouragement:
Did you get any pics of the "In-progress"...?
Did he do the splatter finish on the whole interior...?
Share the details...