First attempt at boat repair

[Railcar]

I am new to the site, and new to owning a "Real" boat. I have had canoes, and the like, but I bought a 1978 Ebko something or other, 18' 8" by the title, with a merc 140 I/O. I have found a soft spot on the floor, so I am going to have to replace it. I have read alot on the forums, but I have a few questions on the spefics.

First, I will be using a CCA Plywood, do I go with 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch?
What epoxy would be best to treat the floor with?
What cloth and epoxy should I use to do the floor?
When I redo the floor, should I replace the foam?

this is a family boat, pulling tubes and general lake running is all it will be doing, and I do live in the midwest, so hard winter freezes are unavoidable, and I will be doing all the repairs in a garage with small electric heaters.

 

[Jimmy H.]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

Hi, welcome to the site. Are you sure the transom and stringers are ok? My boat is an 1986 same length and motor as yours that needs all the wood replaced. Seems if the deck is soft than everything under it may be softer... Maybe not but include some pictures and the experts at iboats will walk you through everything. There are endless threads with never ending learning to be done as well. Good luck Railcar!

 

[Railcar]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

I have no clue as to the status under the floor just yet. I just got started on stripping the interior, jump seats pulled, seats removed from the bow, and one piece of the interior removed. I have never attempted anything on this scale, and I am a bit nervous about it. Money is a bit of an issue, so I am spreading my purchases out so it doesn't put too much pressure on my family budget (I have 4 kids) I also travel for work, I am gone 10 days and home for 4 so I am only able to get a day or so every 2 weeks for working on the boat. The only fiber I know is Fiber Optics, and I doubt that knowledge will do me any good. On top of the floor, I am redoing both port dash and starboard console, rewiring the electronics, replacing all the seats, and changing all the lights to LED.

 

[Railcar]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

Early stages of the project

 

[Railcar]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

And a few more. Bought the boat from a local marina for $800. Might be over my head on the repairs, but I am giving it a go.

 

[Seasonally.boating.jon]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

Welcome to iboats, Railcar. I was wondering if you have considered poly resin and biax cloth? Save a bundle with that route.

 

[Railcar]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

I thought glass was stronger than poly

 

[Seasonally.boating.jon]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

Epoxy vs. poly.......That is debatable. I've heard epoxy actually has some flex to it and poly is more brittle. It's really up to you but to save money, you can go for the poly which will be strong enough to do the job. You can order 5 gallon pal for around $125. Just trying help you save some bucks. Do some research on it then decide. Compair prices.

You won't have to spend alot of money at one time. There is alot of things that go on before you start buying and inbetween buying. Seems like the grinding and preping takes forever. Good luck.

 

[Railcar]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

Before I got into Engineering, I worked metal for over 12 years. Fiber cant be that much different than metal work. Cutting and grinding is nothing new, just new to the process for boats. If I have to do repairs below deck, I dont know if poly will work or not, so plan for worst hope for best. I really want to start buying supplies now. Might take a month or 2 for prep work, but it would be nice to have it all on hand when the time came.

I have read for days on how to replace the deck, and I have gotten more questions than answers. All I need is a cheap resin and cloth to replace the floor, and some idea as to how much to buy. I really dont want gallons of the stuff laying around forever, since I plan on keeping this boat for at most 3 years, then selling it off so I can upgrade to something built this century.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

This is how the process works:

Remove rotted decking.

Check foam for waterlogging (core sample it with a piece of pipe).

Remove for if wet.

Check stringers for rot (take core samples down low with a drill).

Check transom for rot (core samples down low)

Replace stringers and transom if rotted.


Your boat is made of polyester resin and cloth, going back with the same will save you money and will be perfectly ok structurally.

If you just tear out the old deck and install new decking on top of rotten stringers and wet foam there will be nothing for you to fasten your new decking to and the wet foam will slow your boat down and sink it if you ever get swamped.

If your transom is rotten and you don't replace it your boat will take on water when you use it, again... this could cause your boat to sink if your foam is waterlogged.


How much material you will need depends on how much rot you have in your boat and you won't know that until you've gutted it or at least removed the decking and core sampled everything.

Typically, a boat the age of yours is completely rotten below deck (that's why it was only $800) and will need a complete restoration and you're looking at putting $1500 to $2500 into it... but when you're finished you'll have a like new boat that is safe and seaworthy.

 

[Railcar]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

so basically I got a motor that is good, and the rest can pretty well be junked? seems a bit rediculous to dump $2500 into repairing the deck and another 900 or so to replace seats and cushons on a 34 year old boat, when I could get a mid 90s bayliner capris 2050 cuddy for around $3500.

 

[Trooper82]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

so basically I got a motor that is good, and the rest can pretty well be junked? seems a bit rediculous to dump $2500 into repairing the deck and another 900 or so to replace seats and cushons on a 34 year old boat, when I could get a mid 90s bayliner capris 2050 cuddy for around $3500.

Yes, but you could wind up with the same situation of needing to do the same work...really depends on how well the boat is maintained and if anything bolted to the hull/transom below the water line was done properly. Then again, you could find one that is in decent shape.

FriscoBoater went through it here...

Good Luck either way you decide to go...

 

[StevenT]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

so basically I got a motor that is good, and the rest can pretty well be junked? seems a bit rediculous to dump $2500 into repairing the deck and another 900 or so to replace seats and cushons on a 34 year old boat, when I could get a mid 90s bayliner capris 2050 cuddy for around $3500.

Chances are pretty good a mid 90s boat is going to need new wood and glass also. Problem is the manufactures encapsulate the wood with glass and then drill holes in the wood. Also it depends on how the PO maintained the boat.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

so basically I got a motor that is good, and the rest can pretty well be junked? seems a bit rediculous to dump $2500 into repairing the deck and another 900 or so to replace seats and cushons on a 34 year old boat, when I could get a mid 90s bayliner capris 2050 cuddy for around $3500.

There's a lot of mid and even late 90's boats that're rotten too... there's no such thing as a cheap fiberglass boat. For $800 you bought a motor, trailer, and a fiberglass shell... the rest is crap and you could pay $3500 for the same thing in a later model.

At least with an older model boat you know it's going to need some work, some of the mid and late 90's model boats we see on here are just plain rip-offs. The seller will rip out the old carpet and then throw down new 1/2" plywood over rotten decking ,stringers, and transom and throw some new carpet on it. Then sell it for "Like New" condition to some poor unsuspecting fiberglass boat newbie. After the newbie takes the boat out a couple of times they come on this forum wanting to know "Why is my new to me boat taking on water?"

You've got to be very careful when buying a fiberglass boat. You've got to know how they're built and what materials they're made out of. A lot of people buy fiberglass boats thinking that they're made completely out of fiberglass and there's now way it could rot... boy, do they get a surprise. A lot of fiberglass boat owners also think this and don't take care of their boats the way they should which causes them to rot, and that's why there's so many rotten fiberglass boats out there.

The best way to buy a fiberglass boat is to consider it rotten until proved otherwise... kind of like guilty until proven innocent.

If you're going to buy a 'glass boat, I suggest you read this restoration forum for a year. Read all the fiberglass boat thread old and new. You'll learn how these boats are put together, where they go bad, how to fix them, and what to look for when buying one.

... or you could buy an aluminum boat.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

All great advice here, it's all a personal decision. I've restored boats that are 30 years old and the wood was solid as a rock, and I've restored boats that were 9 years old and totally rotted out. The only way to know is to check it VERY well, before purchase.

As far as do I put money into the old one, well what an age old question that is.....and no one can answer that but you. Now can I get out of it what I've got in a restore? NO you can not, so you can't look at it that way. A boat that is 30 years old and sells for $800.00 that is in bad shape and the same boat in GREAT shape might sell for $1,200.00, so you see the point? Now can you get it from rotten to great shape for $400.00? No way in he**

So, decide if you like the boat, style, shape, layout, etc. and if you do, fix her up, if you don't look for somthing else. There are tons of boats out there cheap, some in really good shape, some not (most not). Hope this helps you out.

CW

 

[Railcar]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

After researching the various views and methods (i have read millions is different opinions and ways to restore) anyone know if boxed aluminum would be better or worse for replacing the sub deck structure? Ply is relatively expensive, and not exactly easy to get where i live(40 min drive to nearest lumber yard). I have tons of aluminum and years of expierence in fab and welding, not to mention durability of metal over wood.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

The Poly resin and glass will not adhere to the metal.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

The deck material for a 'glass boat need to be porous so it can be laid-up with fiberglass mat/cloth and resin. It is tied into the hull and transom by "tabbing", this acts as a diaphragm and supports/strengthens the hull by tying everything together.

If your deck isn't tied into your hull it'll be "floppy" and you'll have stress cracks and hull breaching leak cracks in a short time.

Read the fiberglass boat restoration threads, all of the ones that are done correctly will have the deck tabbed into the hull... and for a good reason.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

Hello Railcar and welcome to Iboats.. ..

I am new to the site, and new to owning a "Real" boat. I have had canoes, and the like, but I bought a 1978 Ebko something or other, 18' 8" by the title, with a merc 140 I/O. I have found a soft spot on the floor, so I am going to have to replace it. I have read alot on the forums, but I have a few questions on the spefics.

How large a spot and where is it located would be the first question..

First, I will be using a CCA Plywood, do I go with 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch?

Whatever came out of there is what you need to use.

What epoxy would be best to treat the floor with?

Well .. I think West System products are the best.
But look at the decking material below the carpet to suggest what you might need to go with. Poly and chopped mat or just Epoxy and carpet ? ..

What cloth and epoxy should I use to do the floor?

Depends again on what was there in the first place. Is it poly there now .. or is it Epoxy coated ply.
If its epoxy then go with basically any 2 part epoxy and just keep coating the wood until it stops drinking it.
If its poly and a layer or two of polyester .. then you can replicate the same thing in your deck repair with the same materials.

When I redo the floor, should I replace the foam?

Is there foam ? If so Is it wet or Bad in any way ?
Your asking something that has not come to question as of yet.. Yes if its wet or moldy then replace it. If its good and nice then dont replace it.

this is a family boat, pulling tubes and general lake running is all it will be doing, and I do live in the midwest, so hard winter freezes are unavoidable, and I will be doing all the repairs in a garage with small electric heaters.

Check your stringers out as much as you can.
Check your motor mounts for rot.
Check your transom as much as you can.

Basically check your back end and back end stringers.

I personally think that you Might have a Very well built/clean boat here.

Not a lot of boats take into consideration of having a steering wheel inlayed/capped with teak.
Not a lot of boats have all the teak trim or covers that your showing ( ski locker Teak..Side pannel Teak .. All that teak etc ).

Check The boat out well.. it seems like it was Well taken care of and has basically everything in order ( gauges and switches etc. ).

I would buy it for 800 in a heartbeat as long as the running gear is in good order.

Good little ski/tubing boat. ( best ski boat I have ever been behind was a tri-hull ).

I think its kinda crazy that some have come to a complete rebuild Idea of this boat just from the year alone where there is nothing suggesting that of yet on this boat.

I suggest that We need to slow down on such presumptions ( not including Cadwelder because he has his post spot on ) that we send this hull into the Full resto graveyard.

Please let us not Derail Railcars' project just yet ..

YD.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: First attempt at boat repair

First, I will be using a CCA Plywood, do I go with 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch?

When I redo the floor, should I replace the foam?

I may have missed where these were addressed already, but:

CCA Plywood is pressure treated, expensive, possibly very heavy compared to exterior grade plywood and probably unnecessary. When exterior grade plywood is properly prepped & wrapped w/ poly resin & glass there is little 'need' to use pressure treated lumber. The process of pressure treating saturates the plywood w/ moisture that can take months to dry, and will need to be monitored for warp & twist while it dries. Until dried, it is likely very heavy, and doesn't accept adhesives & resins as well as dried or non-treated lumber.

The below deck foam is for flotation & possibly structural integrity of the hull. Read thru Trooper82's Ebko thread, he did a very good job on the below deck work & used pour in foam.

Unless you can speak to the engineer that originally designed your hull at Ebko, it will be difficult to assess whether the foam is 'only' flotation foam (as required by the US Coast Guard) or if it adds to the structural integrity of the hull. That maybe dampening vibration, reducing noise transmission thru the hull from water striking it, increasing the hulls resistance to flex, twist, or torsional forces.

Read thru some of the threads & posts found when you do an advanced search for "Flotation foam" from the resto forum homepage. You will likely get 500+hits.

My 1960 fiberglass boat didn't have any foam originally, for flotation or otherwise. I will be stuffing as much foam below decks as I possible can. I will have put to much money, time & effort into it, to risk having it sink. Plus myself, my friends & family are certainly worth way more then the boat.....