Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

[sshawn]

All,

I have searched the forums, and seen various responses to all, and I have a good idea on what to do to get my boat the way I want it, but I wanted a direct response because I find what I'm doing somewhat unique...

My boat is a 13' Boston Whaler, a 1958. This is the first year they've made the fiberglass 13's and this boat has a lickin so to say. Part of my project will be patching holes, forming new fiberglass structure, and filling it pitted areas.

I've seen posts on how to fix small gelcoated areas, I've seen posts that show how to paint the entire boat (after roughening up the gelcoat), but I haven't yet found how to completely get a boat water worthy when this level of repair is being done.

The bottom: I've sanded through 4-5 coats on paint, and I assume the last is the gelcoat. I've taken down to the glass in most areas because of the pits I've found. I want to do a good job sealing this boat. There are a couple wounds in which I plan on filling in with mash. So for post's sake, consider the entire bottom bare fiberglass.

The top: I haven't attacked it yet, but expect at least 5 coats of paint. There is so much orange peel on the top that I think they may have melted candle wax under the paint . I was planning on sanding down to the glass on the top as well. As I said, I want a permanent fix that is very watertight.

I'm not completely sure how to finish this boat in my own garage. I've heard that spraying gelcoat over bare glass is the way to go, but I've also heard that some have used some primer and paint, and nothing special. The latter I have a hard time believing. So I'm looking for experience here.

I have a good set of tools, but I don't have a paint booth. Not sure what to expect if I try to spray gelcoat, or the level of difficulty. I've heard paint can be rolled on, then sanded. But not sure if that works on top of bare fiberglass, what keeps this watertight?

I'm looking for advice on the bottom and the topside. I'm not a hack by any means but I want to try to do this all out of my garage. I have many years experience on cars, wood, and a number of different projects including making fiberglass wing structures. I've just never attacked the painting portions. If it takes considering an additional tool purchase to make it right, I'll deeply consider it.

I want to thank the respondents in advance, I'm sure various questions on this level have been asked before but maybe not at the full complete level of bare fiberglass on top and bottom.

Shawn
1958 Boston Whaler 13'

 

[oops!]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

shawn.......welcome to iboats !

whalers are a different breed, and while i dont think you are the first on the forums to to a total restoration of a whaler, you are the first that i can remember.

whalers are a glass encased foam. the whole boat is foam....if the foam is wet.....the boat will not perform as it should.
you are worried about the outside of the boat.....its what is inside that you should be concerned about.

removing the gellcoat is not a good idea. it is tons of work to do a full shoot.
you might tra a paint stripper to remove the gunk that is on there.....but leave the gellcoat !

once the paint is gone......you can examile the hull to see if any repairs have been done.
if so......there is a good chance that the foam in side the boat is wet.

the only way to know for sure is with a moisture meter....(not the plywood kind) or you could weigh the boat against manufacturers specs.

if the foam is wet, it would be best to cut away the interior of the boat.....dig the foam....repair the hull from the inside..then re glass the interior back in....and re foam the boat......

the glass hull is very water tight....you are worried about sealing the hull.....dont. fiberglass is extremely water resistant and any water intrusions you find will be due to a breach in the hull....not from water seeping thru the glass.

as far as re gellcoating.....if you are doing a whole boat......shoot it. (spray)

we can guide you to a successful shoot.....but you dont sound like you are any where near that stage yet.

please post pics of what you are working with, and we can and will giude you to a successful project !

cheers
oops!

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Well, I haven't started on the topside like said before, but a while ago, I attacked the rear underside a little bit, and after a garage full of dust, I realized I was doing it wrong. So about a week ago, my dust deputy came and I was set to give it a whirl last night... I figured I would begin with the front and see how the dust collection system worked, then go from there. As I mentioned, I found a little pitting and got concerned and said, lemme take it down to the glass. Sounds like I should have your name, ooops .

Anyhow whats done is done, and here are a few pics:

How the bottom looked when I got it:




Front end that I did last night. Notice the hole... there was a crack in there when I first got the boat, so I stuck a drill in and struck water! Smelly nasty water and soft foam. So me and a die grinder went crazy until I found dry denseness.:






I had pics of the sanded back end, but can't find em, but I'll U/L some more following this weekend.

I know its alot of work... I want a bigger boat eventually but I feel that I should learn all these fixes before I take on something that can't fit in my garage and may need these repairs anyway. Plus I have a very special liking to the 13' Boston Whalers, my desire is to have this nice project. So let the comments rip, I'm not going to get discouraged.

Shawn

 

[oops!]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

take paint stripper to it......get all that gunk off.

while that stuff is stripping it self.......lets get the structural done before we do the cosmetics.

you will need to re foam where you ripped it open.....after you use 2 part foam (not great stuff or another in the can insulating foam)
.......sand the foam till its smooth then use 2 layers of 1.5 oz matt and glass over the area....let cure and leave it alone......we will come back to it

then flip the boat......there will be more water in the foam....this is what we need to get rid of.

drill a series of 1.5 inch holes in the deck....stick a pvc pipe with two "teeth" cut in it....twist the pvc pipe into the foam.....and when you hit hull....pull out the pipe.....look at the core of the foam.....dry...ok.....wet.....not good.

find out where the wet foam is.....take special attention to the lowest parts of the hull.

after you find out where the foam is.....you will know where to cut the deck to dig the wet foam.

after the foam is out......you can glass the hull in that area....or where ever you find a spot you think is problematic.

then re foam.....and glass the section back in.

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Paint stripper eh? Not sanding? Will that cut through the 5 layers? Would home depot grade stuff work?

Do you think if I find that the only cracked area was what I already drilled out, would that be the only suspect wet foam?

When you say series of holes to inspect, I'm afraid I'll be shooting blanks trying to find water. What do you recommend for trying this method, just trying for the bottom areas that I think the water will drip down to?

Thanks for your help,

Shawn

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

How heavy is your boat? A "heavy" fiberglass boat is a sure sign of waterlogged foam.

You can get a stripper called CitrusStrip at Home Depot that is safe to use indoors because it's nonflammable and doesn't have noxious odors. Brush it on and let it set for 12 -24 hrs., usually the longer the better.

Boston Whalers are great boats, but they aren't impervious to problems like this. Once the hull is breached they'll suck up water like any other foam boat. My Dad had one that was "heavy", I didn't know why at the time... but I do now.

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Well, I bought it knowing nothing about boats, nothing to compare, and I'm too weak to tell you it feels a certain weight. Not much of the fiberglass skin is "soft" or moveable, so I would think that most foam is in tact. The part that I cut away was soft, so thats my gauge so to say.

Shawn

How heavy is your boat? A "heavy" fiberglass boat is a sure sign of waterlogged foam.

You can get a stripper called CitrusStrip at Home Depot that is safe to use indoors because it's nonflammable and doesn't have noxious odors. Brush it on and let it set for 12 -24 hrs., usually the longer the better.

Boston Whalers are great boats, but they aren't impervious to problems like this. Once the hull is breached they'll suck up water like any other foam boat. My Dad had one that was "heavy", I didn't know why at the time... but I do now.

 

[RIDEPATE]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Shawn,
I've got a 1959 hull# 1602, 13 Sport. opps is the man to listen to, but I respectfully disagree with him on drilling exploritory holes in the floor. If your non-skid floor is in good condition and you drill holes in it, you will Not be able to replicate the non-skid pattern and see where you drilled and faired-out the repair forever.....It's a real unique pattern.
I'd suggest you drill in the transom, where it's smooth and easy to repair about 3 to 4 inches up from the bottom of the hull, 12 inches or so from the drain. If it has water, it will run out or be obivously wet.
I'm lucky on mine to have only 2-coats of paint to strip.

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Nice on the number... I still have not found mine and I'm afraid I'm going to screw it up. I haven't found a good source to tell me where it is located on the '58. But paint stripper would be preferred for this reason.

So your method would involve propping it up so it all drains back; correct? How long do you guys think it would take for water to work its way down if this was the case?

Shawn

 

[john-88]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

good luck bud im going through a full restoration, good luck... ooops i noticed that every boat i see getting restored have a pvc pipe, what the point of having this pvc pipe in the bottom hull?

 

[RIDEPATE]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Nice on the number... I still have not found mine and I'm afraid I'm going to screw it up. I haven't found a good source to tell me where it is located on the '58. But paint stripper would be preferred for this reason.

So your method would involve propping it up so it all drains back; correct? How long do you guys think it would take for water to work its way down if this was the case?

Shawn

I too was afraid I would somehow erase the #, but it's a gel-coated stencil, stripper won't hurt it. Mine was in the front locker-Look for a little round bump about 3 or so inches in dia at the bottom. Pic of mine below.
On the water. Yes drill and prop it bow-high.
I know the majority here won't agree but.........Here goes...Flamesuit on. Many Whaler-13 owners have drained the hull via letting it self-drain without all the tear-out/re-foaming fuss and muss. It's just not necessary when there's no wet-rotted wood involved, especially on a 13ft boat. A little more Whaler-Specfic info can be found @ WhalerCentral.com

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

While draining it in this way will remove some of the water, the foam won't drain and will still hold water for years, unless wet foam is removed there is no easy way to fix it. Well, you can vacuum bag the entire hull and leave it under vacuum for until it's dry, this can take a while though.

Like oops! said, stop sanding before you do more damage that is hard to fix. To get a good idea of what needs to be done start reading more threads about repairs and other people's experiences, whether it's a Bayliner or a Whaler the glass work, foam and painting are all the same.

 

[oops!]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

good luck bud im going through a full restoration, good luck... ooops i noticed that every boat i see getting restored have a pvc pipe, what the point of having this pvc pipe in the bottom hull?

john....the pvc pipe i was mentioning for was to do a core sample.

the pvc you are more than likely referring to is used for many reasons.....

it is light wiring conduit.
it is used to channel water from one area to the other. (say from the bow to the stern, and traveling thru a foam area where water cannot touch the foam.
i used it on my build to drain the in floor ice chest.

to the op......the tough thing about wet foam is it may be localized.
only if the integrity of the foam is compromised will the water travel from one area to the other.

so you could have wet foam in the front....a good middle and a bad outer chine.
if you drill core samples in the middle of the boat....and the foam is good you may think its ok.....but its not.

foam is a bazillion little egg shelled bubbles that trap air.
once the bubble breaks....water can get into it....while the next bubble right beside it may be just fine.
the problem occures if the boat freezes. the expanding water will break into the surrounding bubbles, and then condensation will start inside the foam.....a few seasons of this, and the foam is toast.

thats why the wet foam might be localized.

whalers are a real pain to fix.
the cap does not seperate like regular boats do....so there is no way to get into the foam !.

by the way......the trick for re doing the diamond pattern in the gellcoat....is to re gell it....then take a hack saw blade....and drag it across the gellcoat in the repair area..in the trough of the existing gellcoat..this will cut away the gellcoat....in the repair area, but it will leave marks in the surface, just like the factory.

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

A couple of opinion related questions now...
The boat has been upside down for over two years now... knowing this, would you change opinion on where and how to drill it? I think the answer is no b/c samples are what is key. I agree with oops, the foam will stop the majority from flowing down. There are so many coats of paint on the topside that I can't even tell if there was ever any grip pattern on the top deck. There was originally a center console, installed the wrong way, and when I noticed that there was never a sufficient drainage system for water to come out of the console, and areas where glass was showing on the inside of the console... I ripped it out and left it by the trash the next day. It left scars but as I said, I want to re-do everything.

It is just hard for me being so new to repair to think its time to start drilling misc holes in random patterns all over the topside to shoot blindly to find water. I do know by the end of this, I will have a ton of fiberglass experience and probably have the ability to make it look perfect. I just want to attack this smartly.

More pics of the topside (btw, the front deck was also a hack job so my plans are sawzall to return to OEM.











Shawn

 

[john-88]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

john....the pvc pipe i was mentioning for was to do a core sample.

the pvc you are more than likely referring to is used for many reasons.....

it is light wiring conduit.
it is used to channel water from one area to the other. (say from the bow to the stern, and traveling thru a foam area where water cannot touch the foam.
i used it on my build to drain the in floor ice chest.

to the op......the tough thing about wet foam is it may be localized.
only if the integrity of the foam is compromised will the water travel from one area to the other.

so you could have wet foam in the front....a good middle and a bad outer chine.
if you drill core samples in the middle of the boat....and the foam is good you may think its ok.....but its not.

foam is a bazillion little egg shelled bubbles that trap air.
once the bubble breaks....water can get into it....while the next bubble right beside it may be just fine.
the problem occures if the boat freezes. the expanding water will break into the surrounding bubbles, and then condensation will start inside the foam.....a few seasons of this, and the foam is toast.

thats why the wet foam might be localized.

whalers are a real pain to fix.
the cap does not seperate like regular boats do....so there is no way to get into the foam !.

by the way......the trick for re doing the diamond pattern in the gellcoat....is to re gell it....then take a hack saw blade....and drag it across the gellcoat in the repair area..in the trough of the existing gellcoat..this will cut away the gellcoat....in the repair area, but it will leave marks in the surface, just like the factory.

oops thank u for explaining, i used to have an ice chest in my boat but im planning to eliminate that, i live out here on the southbay of california so we dont get freezing weather down here and i do remove my boat from the water after every use to store it under a canopy at a storage place where rain water doesnt get inside... do u think i still need to install a pvc pipe?

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Guys,

This is unreal... On my way home from a weekend trip, I went to home depot and picked up citrustrip as someone recommended. That stuff is incredible! I've applied it to 1 sq ft section and within 1.5 hours it was down to the gelcoat. I'm a fan. Is there any precaution I should have with this stuff? Should I avoid getting it on the raw fiberglass sections? Metal? Rubber? What should I do to finalize besides scraping? Should I go over it with something else like making a baking soda mix or anything?

Many thanks,
Shawn

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Okay, perhaps I found the answer to my question... Don't leave it on too long.... 21 hours later and it looks like I've taken it down to the gelcoat in areas... I'm honestly not sure what is Gelcoat and what is not at the moment. Any advice appreciated.
Pics:

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

It's not easy to tell in a pic, but you've sanded it down to the glass in some places so you should know what that last layer against the glass looks like. It should look, sand and react to the stripper differently than the paint does.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

some whaler restorers say not to try to remove wet foam unless your boat is saturated, due to the damage you have to do to remove it, includng the unique floor patters--the non skid, screw tops in the channels, etc. Since the hull is relatively thin there just can't be that much weight--as muchas an extra gas tank and less than a small passenger. If you were trying to calculate how much water is in the 2" space, remember there is still foam in there.

and wet foam in a sealed hull never drains. If water drains out (rather than drips), it means the foam is gone and then yes you need to get in there.

PS I'm starting on my 1964 13' whaler now.

 

[sshawn]

Re: Boston Whaler Full Restore From Bare Fiberglass (gelcoat or paint or what)

Does gelcoat require primer? After the most faded white, it slowly reveals a grey (but it might be a mix of white and the glass). After cleaning up the gray I hit clearish glass.

Shawn

It's not easy to tell in a pic, but you've sanded it down to the glass in some places so you should know what that last layer against the glass looks like. It should look, sand and react to the stripper differently than the paint does.