Building a 14ft Livingston console

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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I bought a 14 ft livingston this past summer, with a 35 hp johnson and a 5hp kicker. It's the larger of the 14 ft models I've seen. It's rating is for a 40hp remote, and 50hp with twins.
the 35 is more than enough to push it for now, however with just me in the boat, it is near impossible to see anything from the back of the boat until it's up on a plane in smooth water. For this reason, and for comfort, I want to put a console in it, as well as some other modifications (downrigger mounts, and potentially a flat deck in the front.

I'm stuck in between a few ideas on this boat.. I like the center console look, because I'd rather be standing, or atleast kneeling while operating a boat, however with the livingston, it seems like to make a console raised up very high would be raising the center of gravity unnecessarily compared with most of the smaller boat consoles I've seen.. At the same time, the console that is available on livingstons website is more raised up than the livingston consoles I've actually seen on them in person and seems to be a pretty comfortable height. That also takes up a large amount of space in the boat though..

The other option I've seen is the enclosed front with a windshield, that in some ways would be a lot easier to build.. and would leave the entire rear of the boat open...
I do a lot of crabbing and salmon fishing, this past summer, our biggest issue was on the days where we would have to bring the pots in or take them out, with 6 crab pots in the boat theres not a lot of space for anything else, because there's really no good flat spot to stack them in this boat.. so some flat deck space somewhere in the boat is going to be needed to stack the traps. OR I've also though about making a raised platform over where the back cross bench is, extending over the motors.. similar to the platforms on flats boats, except it would just have a rack for setting the crab pots, and be able to strap them down.. any opinions on this?

Another option I've considered, is to deck over the entire boat, and then put a railing around it, with a console set into one of the hulls, similar to how a bass boat is laid out.

I'm in college right now, and don't have a ton of time to actually start working on the boat until May, but when May comes, I want to have a set plan to get started so I don't waste any time not being out on the water. So basically just looking for input, suggestions, opinions, experience etc. to help me make a decision.
 

waterteacher

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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

I'm making the same decisions on a 13' that I will be using in the Columbia River near Vantage. The winds can come up out of nowhere and create some horrible chop. I started fishing there last salmon season with my 10' and though I was never fearful, I thought having a bigger boat be good. My thoughts for the 13 include a helm of moderate height. There are lots of examples on the net. I am going to let comfort be my guide for height once I account for controls and seat height. I think that 1/4" plywood with something like 2x2 corner backing will work fine with glue and screws. I can cut it on the diagonal so that the inside is easier to glass, and use a router and get the largest radius I can so that fiberglass will conform better. I think one sheet of plywood will give me more material than I can use, so I will laminate 2 pieces together for the steering wheel mount, and see if there is room for a shelf under it. A fixed shelf would add a lot of stability. I may put my electronics on the shelf, and possibly on pull-out glides. I think that having electronics out of the sun will be an advantage, and out of sight when I stop to eat, etc. I want to run downriggers but am a little concerned as the river runs fast right below the dam and is rock filled. With a small boat its, snag a cannonball, take a swim... Beavertail makes some interesting pods, just search beavertail pods, that add flotation and serve to greatly reduce the backsplash water coming over the transom or bothering your outboard should you get in rough stuff, but I was already thinking along those lines because the old single-end Dory fishing boats used on the Oregon coast. They set the motors in wells in a similar fashion. I will layup my own extensions to add flotation BEHIND my downriggers, but make them full height to the top of the transom so they can also serve as dryboxes/storage for lunch, etc. I usually fish alone, and from a swivel seat, one should be able to drive the boat, see the electronics and swivel around to the downriggers to fish. I may mount my downriggers a little bit forward knowing the pods will help keep the cables out of the prop on a sharp turn. Additionally, the additional lift provided by the extensions should greatly reduce the tail drag.
As for crab pots and the center of gravity...keep them low and balanced. If you cant run them down the center of the boat, I would consider covering the bow area back as far as the flotation bubble to create a flat deck and provide a little bit of under-deck dry storage. I'd balance the boat by adding some to the stern area as well. Possibly run your pods higher than your motor, accounting for tilting, and put some pots there too.
Keep us posted on the progress. Where are you crabbing?

Steve
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

The pods are an interesting idea, however my livingston is the model with the wide flat transom and is rated for twin 25's so I think ultimately (i.e. after college) that is the route I want to go, since it seems like having a motor mounted correctly behind each hull would help its performance a lot and eliminate all the splashing at the transom from the engine, ( I also think I am going to try and find one of those wings that goes on the cavitation plate to see if that helps it this summer).

Right now I'm leaning towards a center console like you said, I think I will build a replica tall, then cut down to get a good fit. My issue is that for center consoles I really feel like its more comfortable to stand, and I just don't see that being practical with a 14 ft livingston where you have to be standing up on the center anyways.. I just don't like the older style factory center consoles where it's only about a foot high. Also with a center console, it would be right where we usually set the crab pots while we are emptying them..

Regardless of a center console or a side console in the front, I think I'm going to make atleast a small platform at the front at gunnel height with a few inch lip so that water splashing over the front is diverted off the edges. I'm just not sure how far back this platform is going to extend and then whether or not to make a flat deck on the front at the current seat level or not.. I think I will for sure just far enough back to make an enclosure for the gas tank and battery atleast.

Another thought that I'd had was, to make deck pieces that fit into the hulls and the rear half (where it is for the most part straight) a hinge on the outer side of it so that it folds up against the edge of the boat and latches into place vertically against the edge of the boat. Then mount pole holders onto this, so I can fold them up, fish, and have space to sit on the center of the boat without an actual seat, then put all my fishing stuff below deck, and have an open flat deck when I'm just cruising...

In these
 

herefishy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
191
Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Just for giggles, you may benefit from looking at my 17' Lakesport project - link is in my signature. I have addressed concerns as you have described, successfully and to my satisfaction - regarding foreward weight distribution and center console vs. aft side console/tiller.


Regards,

~Fishy
 

zopperman

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Jun 22, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Pics... Please

welcome aboard
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Finally Made some progress this week now that Christmas is over and family is gone. I've deci ded to go with the center console design.

Few things to note:
1. The 35 hp evinrude doesn't have the tilt tube steering, so I'm using a pivoting mount, with a piece of galvanized pipe screwed into the teleflex steering cable, then mounted to the motors steering point.

2. The center console is made with 1/2 exterior plywood and a 2x2 frame. My plan is that now that I have these pieces all cut out and put together in rough form, I will router each edge to a 1/2" radius, and sand all edges smooth. I'm then going to unscrew it and leave it indoors until I come back from school for spring break in 8 weeks. That way the wood will be completely dry, and I can fiberglass it that week. My plan is to coat everything with resin, then use fiberglass mat on the inside of the entire console and then use fiberglass tape along the seams on the outside. Does this sound good? I'm going for minimal additional weight.. but I want to build this thing to last.

3. For downriggers I'm going to add a 8"x20" board/aluminum along the gunnel in the rear (illustrated by the cardboard in the picture) My options are either to use 3/4" plywood wrapped in fiberglass cloth, or to go buy some 1/4" or 5/16" aluminum plate to go on it. I'm kind of leaning towards the aluminum...

4. Last year when we were trolling or crabbing, there were times when waves broke over the transom, I picked up a 4'x17" piece of 1/8" aluminum while I was getting my aluminum angle for the steering mount. I wasn't sure what I was going to use it for, but I drove 40 minutes to get the angle so I thought it might come in handy... Anyways, I was talking with my dad about the downrigger mounts, and he suggested I make a splashwell out of it and mount it to the downrigger mounts on the side, and a piece spanning across the hull. I've got 2 bilge pumps that are going to be mounted in the rear of each hull. With a splashwell on the stern, it would divert any waves over the transom down into one of the hulls to be pumped out by the bilge (I'd rather not drill more hulls into the transom than i have to, which is why I don't want to drill a drain in the splashwell. Theres a pic of the aluminum being held in place to get the general idea... this would also give me a place to clean fish without having to get my whole boat bloody... photo 1.jpgphoto 2.jpgphoto 3.jpgphoto 4.jpgphoto 5.jpg
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Also note, the board that the steering is on on the front of the console is not the face plate for the console, it is the backing plate, and there is another board that actually fits the space...

And here is the inspiration for my boat.. although I will be adding my own uniqueness to mine. 1.jpg
 

waterteacher

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Nov 25, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Also note, the board that the steering is on on the front of the console is not the face plate for the console, it is the backing plate, and there is another board that actually fits the space...

And here is the inspiration for my boat.. although I will be adding my own uniqueness to mine. View attachment 127745

A couple of thoughts...the splash well sounds like a good idea, and doubling as a fish cleaning station sounds good makes sense if you don't drain it back into the boat lest it get blood all over...if you get any fuel spillage in the splash well when attaching and detaching lines from motors, it may taint your fish. I like the down-rigger mounts. Are you welding or attaching them another way to the front of the splash tray to give added stability? 2. I am always concerned with sharp corners on things that might get fallen on...eg, the corners of the console and of the down-rigger mounts.
And a question: What are you doing for shift and throttle controls? Are they mounting to the console? Top or side mount? Where are you putting electronics?
Steve
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

I'm really going back and forth on the splashwell, on the one hand, it is adding "unneccessary" weight, in that the boat would be perfectly capable without it, but at the same time, that space is wasted space anyways, since you can't stand on the gas tank, or in the other little corner for anything really anyways.. The options for draining would be to either drill through the transom and have a drain like a factory splashwell has, or the simple way, having it drain to the right back corner of the hull where the bilge pump

The downrigger mounts would be tied into a crosspiece that would form the top edge of the splashwell, and a horizontal piece on each downrigger mount to make the edge of the splashwell.
I'm also debating about whether to use aluminum vs. wood and fiberglass for that whole assembly.. Wood and fiberglass is more readily available (its a 40 minute drive to the scrap yard for aluminum)
If I do wood and fiberglass, I'd use 3/4" plywood... I'm not sure which would be lighter.. probably aluminum.. but I'd need atleast 1/4" if not 3/8" right? or some ribs along the bottom..
Second issue is that I don't have easy access to a welder capable of welding aluminum...and I'm not the best at TIG welding (my hands are too shaky) I could rivet it with aluminum angle, but that wouldn't be quite as smooth looking as fiberglass.
One idea would be to use wood and fiberglass for the downrigger mounts and then use the router to make a guide for the aluminum to fit into for the splashwell... What do you think about that??

As far as controls go, I'm planning on doing a side mount on the right side of the console, as I don't think a binnacle mount would fit very well with the width constraint and the steering wheel.
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Alright, well my spring break is coming up in a week and a half which means its time to get going on the fiberglassing and getting it fishing ready.
Fiberglassing questions:

So Currently, the console is indoors drying, and will have been drying for 2 months.
What is the best method for fiberglassing and sealing this? I was thinking coat each piece of wood in a solid layer of resin, and then using CSM on the inside.
It's fairly sturdy, so the fiberglass would be primarily to seal the wood and then make smooth to paint. (Although I have seen color pigments to mix into polyester resin for very cheap... anyone have experience with this?

Do I need to use Cloth on the outsides? (all edges are a .75" radius, so I'm not worried about sharp corners) Or Would cloth on the outside be better than CSM on the insides?

How much Resin should I be expecting to buy with either route? the consoles rough dimensions are 32"x18"x12" minus the steering wheel side below the dash... speaking of which, I'm not content on that, I'd like to not leave it open, but not sure if a hatch is worth it... I know for sure I want to have a glove box in there...

tell me your guys thoughts on this, if I were to cut out a small rectangle of styrofoam or similar, and paint it, or wrap it in something, (since polyester resin will eat through fiberglass correct?) then make a fiberglass box around it with a little lip to screw onto the console. Then once it dries, melt the styrofoam, or pour gasoline (would that ruin the fiberglass?) to create a smooth hollow box, similar to how you would in a concrete foundation.

On the bow, I know for sure that I need a lip so that water is diverted outside the boat instead of scooping it.
What would be the best method for this, strength for weight.. It would be across the top, and I'm still not a hundred percent sure on how exactly I want to do this, or how far back/how high I want it.. I think 1/2" plywood should be strong enough with either 1x4 mounted vertically or 2x2 or 2x3 bracing along it, then fiberglassed..
Give me some opinions or ideas on this.. I might wait, but if I'm going to be buying fiberglass anyways...

For the windshield and grab rail on the console... Does anyone have experience with bending small a plexiglass windshield with a heat gun? I have a 4 ft wide bending brake that is used for folding crab pot wire that could give steady pressure and bending.. if you think it is possible to get hot enough with such a large piece?
And any ideas on the grab rail?? I have no idea other than havin one custom fabricated which could get pricey...

And I got an evinrude control box on ebay for $60, so control wise, all I need is the clip that holds the throttle cable on the motor... hoping either the dealer or an old shop has one lyin around.. otherwise I was thinking I could probably get a piece of channel and notch it, atleast for now..

Know this is kind of long winded... but I really appreciate the help and advice.
Looking forward to replies
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Can anyone help with atleast the fiberglass questions??
 

TruckDrivingFool

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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

You never said what kind of resin your working with. Since you mention csm on the inside I'll guess at poly which will mean that you will want csm anywhere you put resin as poly is too brittle and will crack w/o it.

The only other help I can be is to tell you to search Oops's posts he did a great step by step for FGing plywood awhile ago but Ik don't where it went to.

Perhaps someone else will know.
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

So the console has been fiberglassed. Not nearly as perfect as I would have liked it to turn out, thought I had done a pretty good job sanding it smooth before putting white pigment and surfacing agent in the resin, but nonetheless it feels very smooth, just has ripples and areas where the brush strokes are visible. Not bad for my first time doing this kind of fiberglass work, but there is definitely plenty of room to be improved upon.

I also purchased a 7" pedestal to raise the seat behind the console to a comfortable height

The next step will be to get everything mounted up
if you look at photo 9, you can see the grey part mounted on that aluminum plate is a seat swivel mount. My plan is to remote the seat mount and fasten aluminum angle to the same bolts that held the seat mount, and then bolt the front end of the console into that. Then the same idea on the sides of the console.

All thats left to do after that in order to take it out and test it is get the throttle cable mount and the cable ends.. which have proven very tricky too find, as the local evinrude dealer says the mount is no longer available and couldnt seem to figure out that you can use the same mount for the shift an throttle and the mounts really didn't change throughout the product line.. However, I'm going to call an old outboard mechanic who I've bought motors from in the past to see what he might have laying around, otherwise I'll have to order them online.
photo 6.jpgphoto 7.jpgphoto 8.jpgphoto 9.jpgphoto 10.jpg
 

dawhits1

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Dec 8, 2011
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Re: Building a 14ft Livingston console

Well it's been a while since I've updated this.. I'm for the most part done for now on my initial goals for the boat.
I ended up doing a bow deck, 1/2" plywood with 9 oz cloth. and a stern deck with 3/8" plywood with csm. On both I used 1x6 bracing, and the bow has 2 vertical plywood pieces fiberglassed in in a rough boxiish piece with a piece of neoprene under it to rest on the boat hull to support the middle(the picture should explain it better). Overall, both decks were probably overbuilt for their purpose, and are slightly heavier than I would have liked, particularly the stern deck/downrigger platform. I think that I will likely not always keep the downrigger board on the boat since it is already stern heavy.
I used topside paint ontop of the fiberglass for these decks, and I wish that I had used the fiberglass resin with pigment like I did for the console, the reasoning for not doing it, was that I was pretty much out of fiberglass resin, and didn't want to have to buy more, and I thought paint would be easier. I used sand in between coats of paint to create a textured surface that turned out very nicely, however I think that resin would have been more durable in the long run... either way, not a huge deal, I just preferred the pigment in the resin in this project over paint.


I've had the boat out twice with the console, without the decks.
With two people, full tank of gas, the kicker motor, and a battery it rode very smoothly according to the gps cruised between 24 and 26mph, and didn't have much change in speed <1mph between a comfortable cruising rpm and WOT. and sitting at the console was comfortable. With 1 person however, it was a very jarring ride going through chop if sitting at the console, However, taking the seat off and standing was much more comfortable and natural and it topped out at roughly 28mph, much slower than the 32 when running tiller with 2 people.. however if I recall correctly, I didn't have the trolling motor on when I got that number soo that would definitely affect those numbers. I think the reasoning for the smoother ride with a tiller was that as a tiller,by yourself you were pretty much all the weight in the back and it plowed through chop a bit differently than with weight centered in the boat and skipping along the top of the surface. With the bow deck I think the extra weight up front will be very beneficial, I'm not sure how much of an effect the stern deck will have.. I have a feeling that I may end up putting the battery under the front deck or in the console, and the gas tank just in front of the back bench instead of behind it.. but we will see.

I also am curious as to whether adding a doel-fin or hydrofoil fin would help the boat considering the rough water that the motor encounters being mounted in between the hulls.. I will probably try adding one a few paychecks from now.. although I am still convinced that the ultimate ideal would be to have twin outboards on here... I read that the 1979 35hp was rated at the engine rather than the propeller, and is actually more like a later model 30hp... sooo would twin 1979 35hp (30) be that much overkill on a boat like this considering that it is rated for twin 25hp in the 90's and the weight difference between the 25hp and 35hp is really pretty negligible if not identical.. I'm not planning on doing this soon, just in the long run, I have this 35 that was rebuilt and completely gone through, and has less than 30 hours since then... it would be much easier to find a twin, than to buy 2 25's and have to deal with questionable history and maintenance given the age...

Also, would a stainless steel prop or higher pitched prop be a worthwhile or noticeable upgrade in performance?






I think this is probably a longwinded enough reply... sooooo picture time!14.jpg15.jpg16.jpg
 

Bsturgeonslayer

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A couple of things, one is the more you load the boat, or change the weight ratio you will notice or lose some cushion from the air ride under the boat, also it will affect speed, weather on start up or top end due to pushing more water with the front of the bows for lack of a better word. I want to run a tiller, but when I bought my boat it came with a 28 Johnson with controls so now I need to build a console or trade/sell my motor and get a nice tiller, probably going to make a console, but if a tiller shows up who knows.
 

jbcurt00

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Bsturgeon
Again please take a minute to read the guidelines at the link below in my signature abiut the forum, oe the helpful tips found at the top of the forum page about posting into inactive topics.

Buff60 posted to an inactive topic a 2.5yrs ago, and its been 3.5yrs since Dawhits posted to this topic.

Thanks
 
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