1972 Sea Ray rebuild

[cedarlattice]

Hello
First off I would like to say that I have learned a lot from reading all of the posts here. You guys are great. 2 years ago I sold a 85 24? Sea Ray Sundance. I let the guy take it home before I got the money so he could have a mechanic check it out. The mechanic found a rotten transom. I did not know there was anything wrong. Long story short I ended up with the boat back. I was told that it would cost about $8000 to replace it. I pulled the engine and was planning on parting it out, but I started digging out the rot to see how bad it actually was. It was bad. I have built a number of canoes, kayaks, and rowboats so I had some glassing experience. I thought that I might give it a shot. I found this site and others and absorbed all of the info I could get. Another long story short I replaced the transom and one engine stringer. It really was not that hard. The worst part was removal and grinding. I itched all summer. I should have shared my experience with everyone but I didn?t. I sold the boat this past year and ended up with a 72 21? SRV for about $300. I had to rebuild the motor and am working on the interior. Which brings me to my topic. I found rot in the transom, and the engine stringers don?t look healthy, and the floor doesn?t look good.
On the first boat I used West System. I have never used poly before. I am thinking of using West to glue the transom up and attach it to the shell. I am thinking I would then use Poly resin of some brand to skin the transom, stringers and floor. I know that Poly doesn?t stick to epoxy so I have to be careful on the order I do things. From what I read, poly isn?t as water resistant as epoxy. What do I put over the poly to prevent water in the bilges from wicking back into the stringers? Is it as simple as spraying on a coat of clear gelcoat? Also if I use poly, will the fillets be as strong as epoxy if I use additives such as wood floor or fibers. I guess that I am nervous about jumping into the unknown. I know I can do it with West System, but I would like to be able to afford gas when I am done.

 

[zopperman]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Use poly for everything. Your boat was built with poly.
Uscomposites has it for cheaper than west systems.
I don't understand your question about teh bilge. Glass and resin alone is fine, you can use bilgekote or gelcoat or something
Welcome aboard.

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Man - break that up into paragraphs - Much easier on these old eyes.

LK

 

[cedarlattice]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

You answered my question Zooperman. I am wondering how the fumes are with poly? Explosive or just a little stinky. I have the boat on my side of the garage. I had hoped to have everything ground out before the snow fell but work and family take priority. Here are some pics of the start.

 

[cedarlattice]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Woops! Put 2 of the same in

 

[oops!]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

hi cedar........your fine...no worries.

forget the epoxy gluing.....just use poly.....it is as strong as you are ever going to need.

the fumes are not explosive to the point that you will have to worry about it....i have done some real tight quarters glassing just feet from a big propane burning heater pointing right at the work.......so dont worry about it

also .....as far as poly not being a water proof barrier......well.....yes, that is true.....teenie tiny molecule size water particles might thru the glass over the next 15 years for a total of .000003 percent of a liquid oz.....but other than that....if poly boats were not water proof, well....they would be at the bottom of the pond faster than a tinny with all the reevits drilled out. (translation....it will sink fast)

the best barrier is to add wax to the final layer of poly.....this is a standard practice. the wax is called airdry
when you go to mix the final layer of glass and resin....just add 3% of wax to the resin mix......you will be fine.

the link in my sig is that of a 69 srv 190.....the first 16 pages are every thing you need to know about poly....glassing....and everything you are going to do with your boat.

cheers
and welcome aboard
oops

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

I've never seen water wick through poly resin in my life. I know the site you've been reading and they are nuts about epoxy. Like zoop says your boat is poly and poly is what I'd use exclusively. No need for epoxy anywhere in your boat. None was used when it was built and it's 40 years old. The water that rotted your boat did not get into the wood because of wicking. It got there due to either Poor application, poor maintenance, or breaches in the surface, i.e. screws, damage etc. If poly is properyl applied and maintained, it has excellent water repellant qualities and will not allow water to penetrate into the wood sub-surface below. As with most everything, it;s all in the prep and the application. The guys on here will ensure that you know how to do it right so that your repairs will last for decades.

 

[oops!]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

yep....the above is totally true......

i have ripped apart hundreds of boats now......and all the rot was caused by bad encapsulation or not correctly installed screws going into the transom.

 

[Zyen]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

...the first 16 pages...

no, seriously, it's VERY informative. i learned a lot from that link.
friscoboater also has tons of info and video.
but, i see you do have glass experience, so you should be fine.

if you do, however, run into problems, there is a lot of experience lurking in these forums....and a couple have already replied to you.

please, keep us informed, and welcome.
allan

 

[cedarlattice]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Thanks for all the info guys. I feel much better about this already. I have watched all of friscoboaters videos and am currently reading oops! thread on another tab. I will look for the pics of my last transom build and post them. Here is some of my other work http://cedarlattice.blogspot.com/

 

[zopperman]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Awesome work bud. I would love to build my own woody one day.
This will be a breeze

 

[Zyen]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

... Here is some of my other work

wow. that cedar kayak is gorgeous!
great work.

 

[cedarlattice]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Well I have been reeding Oops! thread/novel for the last week and i am about half way through it. That is just incredible. I am impressed. Today I started digging in


There is a hole on the starboard side next to the transome. I don't see a purpose for it other than to collect water. I started taking up the floor to give me some room to remove the transom. Totally rotten. The glass back there is a good 1/4" thick so I didn't notice any spongyness when I walked on it.

The stringers from what I can see were not covered with glass. There isn't any tabbing on the stringers or where the transom meets the hull. It looks like they glued the stringers to the hull and a bare transom and then laid the deck. I can't believe it lasted 40 years. When I was digging out the foam a thin layer of CSM came up with the foam. It was a consistant thinkness throughout the whole area. Is it possible that it was put in there to help the foam stick to the hull or did it delaminate?

I kept smelling gas so I stopped grinding. I decided to take the tank out before I went boom.

I spent 4 hours digging out foam from the sides with a drywall saw prybar and screwdriver. It still won't budge. All of it is saturated with water and gas. I am not sure what I got myself into.

 

[cedarlattice]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

I was wondering if wood flour is OK to use in a peanut butter mixture as a filler and for making fillets and also to help laminate the first layer of plywood to the transom skin. I am a long way from that point but I am thinking ahead. Is it strange that I lay in bed at night planning how this thing is going to go back together?

 

[oops!]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

I was wondering if wood flour is OK to use in a peanut butter mixture as a filler and for making fillets and also to help laminate the first layer of plywood to the transom skin. I am a long way from that point but I am thinking ahead. Is it strange that I lay in bed at night planning how this thing is going to go back together?

nope...its not strange at all (that you lay in bed thinking of it......i found my self in major business meetings re designing my dashboard)

the glass you saw in the foam is de lam.

wood flour is ok....but best used with epoxy.....for poly....cabosil, and milled fibres, or micro balloons....what you use depends on the structural stregnth you need, and if you have to fair it....the stronger fillers like milled fibres and short hair chopped strand is for no fairing applications.

 

[cedarlattice]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Thanks oops! i finally finished reading your thread on the Hull Extension. That is amazing. I learned alot. When you reply to my posts it is kind of like sending Microsoft a question and getting an answer from Bill Gates.

Zopperman
Thanks for the compliment. I read your thread and a cedarstrip build will be a piece of cake compared to what you took on.

ke5jro
It looks like we are at the same point in our rebuilds. I hope to stay in touch and compare war stories.
Happy Holidays everyone

 

[cedarlattice]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

I have been ripping out the floor and foam and finally found solid nonblack plywood. The stringers up toward the front are damp but solid. I know what I should do but I think I am going to stop there and splice.

The outside stringers are not attached to the hull. I can take them and shake them back and forth. There are long globs of glue on the hull that run beside the stringers. Also where the floor meets the hull, one side of the floor is almost 3/4 of an inch higher than the other. It looks like the floor and stringers were assembled and then set into the hull. The only tabbing that was done was in the fuel tank compartment.
Thinking ahead, I was wondering if closed cell foam that is used in house insulation would work under the deck.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

"I was wondering if closed cell foam that is used in house insulation would work under the deck."

Only if it's 100% Closed Cell Foam.

 

[Peter Eikenberry]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

I am about to do the same with a 1972 Sea Ray SRV 190 see http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/spinners1/Sea%20Ray/?albumview=slideshow

Any suggestions would be appreciated. So far I haven't done much. It's raining and I don't have a covered place to work. I have done a few things, mainly clean the dirt and junk out of the boat, dump the lounge seats and rear seats, and cover the boat so it will dry out. I have built new rear seats and ordered new lounge seats.

But my next task is to start taking up the sole and seeing what's under there (probably a rotten mess).

 

[rrumba]

Re: 1972 Sea Ray rebuild

Nice looking boat there cedar. i see you have begun the fun......... will be here for the ride