1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

[r16409]

Hi,

Just bought boat and looking to replace the dry rotted transom, deck and rear stringers. I have some experience with Polyester Resin but none with marine epoxy. Read thru some awesome posts on G3/Glasspar transom/deck redo but having trouble with my material list. In the process of prepping transom, stringers and deck. The transom had 3 layers of 3/8'' Plywood which all came out and was pretty wet and dry-rotted. Someone had previously covered up the dry-rotted deck and I have removed the rear section and still working on forward section -- it appears that only the rear part of the stringers are damaged and the front part are all encapsulated in Fiberglass and very solid. I was going to attempt to remove the rear dryrotted part of the stringers and replace and tie in with an angle cut, (epoxy/glass). I have been chiseling and sanding the transom trying to remove all the remaining wood ,(I actually put a small hole thru the lower corner of the transom which is in one of the pictures attached). Does every last piece of wood need to be removed from the transom? There is a film of it and I am afraid of going to deep and breaking thru the outer shell again).

Here is how I was thinking this would go.

1) Remove all wood from transom, (as best as possible).
2) Prep and apply layer of 1708 Biaxial filling any voids with epoxy/filler.
3.) Set in first piece of 3/8' plywood with expxy/filer (thickened mix) and set outward curve in transom holding in place with board attached to stringer to maintain the curve, (double check the amount of curve via splash well which has the curve). Screw in from outer side with drywall screws/wood back plates.
4.) Apply 2nd and 3rd pieces the same way allowing to dry between. Cover outer last layer with 1708 and lay 3' tape around edges.

Am I on the right track? I was thinking epoxy was the best route but I am not sure. I am trying to put together a list for us composites - here is what I have so far.

1708 for inner and first inner and last outer layer of transom.
1708 for bottom and top of deck.
3' Tape for edges of transom and deck, (not sure what weight).

Epoxy, (2 gallons)? with appropriate hardener.
2 Part Foam to fill in under-deck for flotation.

Photos:
http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/socal_23760/1968 Glasspar Tacoma/

Any pointers greatly appreciated.

View attachment 118192View attachment 118193View attachment 118194View attachment 118195View attachment 118196.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Welcome to iBoats.
Your pics did not post.
Poly Resin #435 USComposites is all you need. 10 gallons to start. You made need more.
Epoxy not required.
1.5 oz CSM 20 yds
1708 Biaxial Cloth 15 yds
Prefab the transom, stringers and deck outside the boat.
Here's some drawings on how I recommend doing it.

Click the Pics to Enlarge

STRINGERS



DECKS


TRANSOMS

 

[oops!]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

woodies got ya covered here.

As far as "every last piece of wood".....yep !
Use a grinder with a rubber backing pad and a 26 grit resin disc......eats it like butter. when you see the transom glass.....stop !

Using the grinder will give you an uneven surface to attach the new transom to......so.....use peanut butter,.....when you are ready for the final installtion. then take a trowel and spread peanut butter on the skin.....then csm on the wet pb.....then install the transom as per normal.

 

[r16409]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Thanks for the replies!
Here is a link to some photos:

http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/socal_23760/1968 Glasspar Tacoma/

They are not perfect but hopefully show enough.

Thanks for the links! Very informative. Wow 15 Gallons of Resin - I was thinking about 5 for the entire project. So it appears that some folks go with the Polyester Resin Transom lamination and others use epoxy. In my case I will have to laminate the layers of Transom on the boat because there is a "bend". After reading 1961 Glasspar G-3 gets a new Transom... I see that angott used epoxy. I'm sure there must be pro's and con's of each.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Andrew uses epoxy due to the SMELL of Poly and in truth it does have more strenght and a bit more Waterproofing abilities. If you can justify the increased cost then by all means use it. Either one will yield great results. I should have paid closer attention and realized the G3 has a bowed transom, but you hit the jackpot finding andgott. Follow his lead and you cannot go wrong. His rebuilds are some of the best here on the forum, especially with the old classics.

 

[r16409]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Thanks for all the info! Since this is my first project I think I will opt for a less expensive option and go with Polyester Resin. I also spoke to 2 local long time boat builders who have an impeccable reputation of building both commercial and harbor patrol boats. Here is my list:

5 Gallons Resin, (for transom and deck). It is more cost effective to go with 5 gallons if using more than 3 gallons. I think it will be close so I will go with 5 gallons so I do not run out.

combination of
3 oz mat
7 oz cloth
1708 tape and cloth.

I am still debating on weather or not it is worth it to use marine plywood. I looked at the outdoor 3/8' plywood at HD and while it is not the best it looks like it will work as long as I fill the voids and is about 14.00 per sheet vs 40.00 per sheet at the local yard that sells the marine plywood.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

3/8" Ext. Grade Plywood will work but you must fill the voids on the edges before glassing and you should precoat all your wood with resin before you glass it. Raw wood really soaks up the resin. To the best of my knowledge they do not make 3oz mat. You only need 1.5 oz mat. Not sure what the 7 oz cloth is for either. You can Scab in your stringers but since you're already there I'd recommend replacing them. I believe you are way off on your materials needs. IMHO you will need 10 yds of 1.5 oz CSM 6-8 yds of 1708 Biaxial cloth and 12 - 15 gallons of Resin if you are doing stringers, transom and Deck. The Drawings in my previous post indicate the most standard materials used and recommended here on iBoats for restoring boats of your type. I think you would be better served staying within these parameters. You will also need some Cabosil and and some chopped fibers for making filler and filleting material. It would really behove you to do a lot of reading and researching here on the forum for projects similar to yours so you can read and see what techniques and materials you will be needing to acquire.

I can recommend this one as a good one to start with.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=441929&highlight=parrisw

If you read and study it from start to finish, you'll discover just about everything you'll need to know to repair your boat.

MATERIAL.........................................GALLONS
1.5 OZ MAT = 1 gallon covers 4.2 square yds
2.0 OZ MAT = 1 gallon covers 3.4 square yds
Call us if you need help with this. 1-800-507-2003
Here is a helpful table for cloth:
There are about 150 ounces per gallon by weight
1.5 ounce cloth ( cloth not chopped mat)?.1 gallon wets out 40 square yards
2.5 ounce cloth?.1 gallon wets out 25 square yards
4 ounce cloth??1 gallon wets out 15 square yards
6 ounce cloth??1 gallon wets out 10 square yards
10 ounce cloth?..1 gallon wets out 6.5 square yards
18 ounce woven roving ?1 gallon wets out 4.5 square yards
24 ounce woven roving ?1 gallon wets out 3.5 square yards.
Biaxial mat 1708.????.. 1 gallon wets out 4 square yards
Please remember several things:
- these are estimates not hard and fast rules.
- if you are laminating over wood, the raw wood will soak up some resin, which is good, but you will use more resin on the first layer.
- thin resin goes farther than thick resin.

 

[andgott]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Yeah, Poly will do just fine... I DO have many more reasons than the smell in my choice of resins. Epoxy has a lot of advantages, and I just plain like working with it better- to me it's well worth the extra money. I think that I became 'biased' towards it because I was a wood boat guy, and epoxy is the ONLY thing used (or the only thing that SHOULD be used!!), and I just got used to working with it. I have nothing at all against Poly- In fact, I MIGHT be using it on a portion of my next project to save some cash... But don't tell anyone

The only major difference in how you do things when you laminate the transom is that between the layers of ply, you'll have a layer of CSM, where i just used thickened epoxy.

As for plywood, I wouldn't use marine grade in a transom, it's overkill. I don't like the outdoor stuff that I've been finding at the box stores lately, though. At the suggestion of some boatbuilder friends, I've been using Arauco plywood, which is available at Lowes. It is MUCH nicer than the exterior grade stuff, has almost no voids, and more laminations for a given thickness... I was a little worried about waterproofness, but I gave a piece of it the 'boil' test and it passed with flying colors. It is much nicer to work with than the ACX/ BCX plys, it rivals the good marine stuff, and it's only about $30 a sheet.

Make sure you post some pics!!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Good catch Andrew, Arauco ply IS the way to go.

 

[r16409]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Thanks for the info!

Made some progress and made a run to the local boat builder who also sells most of the fiberglass related materials. I wound up getting the following materials.

5 Gallons of Polyester Resin.

4 Yards of 50'' x 4' of 1708

4 Yards of matt and 4 Yards of cloth. I think the matt is too thick however -- I think I should be using 1 1/2 oz but i think mine is about 3 oz.

4 Yards of 1708 tape.

2 sheets of 3/8'' marine plywood. I tried finding the Arauco but Lowes did not have it in 3/8'' and I was able to get the Marine plywood for 34.00 per sheet.

1/2 Lb Cabisol and small bag of CSM Fibers.

While grinding out the bottom of the hull in the corners I managed to grind thru so I patched these areas from the inside with 1708. While doing this and studying everything I am wondering if it would be a good idea to cover the entire inner shell covering the transom and extending the sides and bottom a few inches? I keep thinking of how easy it was to grind thru and some areas seem a bit thin. While this will seem to add some strength Im not sure how much and it may make it more challenging to fit the transom in as well as add more thickness. I know after the transom is in place that is usually the time to add the tabbing which provides much strength.

I took more photos and they can be seen here:

http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/socal_23760/1968 Glasspar Tacoma/

I was able to make a template out of the old inner laminate and cut my first piece and sanded to fit fairly good, (there is a gap in the sides and I need to "angle"sand the edges to contour to the shape of the hull. I flexed it place matching the bend of the shell using boards held i place with c-clamps on the stringers. I left it in place for 48 hours and it seems to have held a bit of memory. I think I will do this when I let the first piece in along with some clamps over the transom and drywall screws with wood washers.

That is it for now.

Comments/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thank You

 

[andgott]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Looking good so far!

The 3/8" Marine ply should be great- at that small price difference, I'd use it, too. Marine ply just isn't available where I live, and shipping more than doubles the cost.

Early Glasspar hulls do seem to be on the 'thin' side in places... Most of the hull of my Citation is only a single layer of heavy cloth, and a grinder will go through it in a hurry if you aren't careful! But, the grinder is a very aggressive tool- and dosen't take long to go through anything. You might want to add a little extra 'glass in the transom area, but when you 'tab' the transom in to the hull, you'll be doing that already.

It looks like that transom is a pretty good fit! It is always nice to have something intact to use as a template. Remember that you don't want a PERFECT fit- there should be some room around the edges for the thickened resin to fill, it is actually stronger if it's got a small gap. Also- when you're cutting the next couple of layers of ply, don't worry about the top of the transom too much- install it, let it cure, then grind it down to the final shape. I usually cut mine a little bigger than it needs to be, then grind it down to where it is supposed to be. Ends up 'cleaner' that way, and is a LOT easier than trying to get it 'perfect'.

-Andrew

 

[r16409]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Thanks for the info Andrew!

I did have an additional thought before I start glassing the laminates in place. Since I am going to be using a layer of 1708, (mat side down against the inner transom skin), do I still need to use a layer of mat on the first laminate since I have the 1708? Not sure how the cloth side of the 1708 will adhere to the plywood? Also I am using 3 1/2 oz mat but it looks like most use 1 1/2 oz - is the 3 1/2 oz mat going to be too thick?

Thank You

 

[andgott]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Nope, the 1708 will already provide a layer of matt, no need to double it up.

Thicker mat in the laminate will work just fine, but remember that it will make the overall thickness of the layup thicker...

-Andrew

 

[r16409]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

I was wanting to get the first laminate in place today so I went ahead and glassed in the 1708 then the 3 1/2 oz mat then the first laminate of the transom. After the 1708 was in I then laid up the mat on top of that then brushed resin over transom laminate. After about 20 minutes I also spread on some resin, cabosil and choped fibers, (peanut butter) with a trowel then put the transom in place then started clamping/running drywall screws. I updated the pictues as well.

http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/socal_23760/1968 Glasspar Tacoma/

All in all it was quite a bit messier than I thought and I am a bit worried that I did not put enough screws -- we will see how it turns out.

 

[r16409]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Hi,

Got some more work done and always learning along the way. Great info here as well as some of the youtube vides by FriscoJarrets! All the feedback is greatly appreciated as well!


Transom now has 3 3/8'' laminates which were laminated with resin and 3 1/2 oz cloth in the boat since the transom has a curve. I used an assortment of clamps and sheet rock screws with plywood washers from the outside for the first 2 laminates then for the last laminate I used shorter screws from the inside so as to lessen going thru the outer skin. I cut the transom about 1/4'' above the shell and will cut the remainder once I figure out the best cutting tool and double check the angle by placing the splash well on and taking notes?.

I removed all the deck and ground out the edge where it butted up against the hull. There is still a lip there which I think is left over from original filet. I am debating weather to remove that as well but it does seem to have a good line that I can use to create a template easier with and ensure the deck will align with the proper height for the tops of the stringers.

I started looking closer at the stringers which I had previously thought were ok but I found a few bad spots in several of them. I thought of trying to remove sections but since I am not using epoxy I am not sure if trying to glue in a section, (scarf), will be the best so I wound up removing two of them and have them in there entirety and i will make templates and try fit them and think more about how to best to proceed with the rest of them. Probably wind up remove them all and replacing them encapsulating in CSM with P. Resin and setting them in peanut butter and covering with 1708. They look to be a hard wood and I need to figure out what is best to replace with. A laminate of plywood or something different.

I took more pictures and updated to the photo bucket site. Sorry that they are not in chronological order.

One thing I am concerned about is weather my hull support is robust enough to prevent any flexing/twisting of the hull. I have a picture of it if anyone can comment it would be greatly appreciated.

http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/socal_23760/1968 Glasspar Tacoma/

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Nice job,
I'll be resembling some of those pics when I get around to my resto...

Definitely gonna follow along as you get-r-dun!

Best of Luck,
GT1M

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Hi,

Got some more work done and always learning along the way. Great info here as well as some of the youtube vides by FriscoJarrets! All the feedback is greatly appreciated as well!


Transom now has 3 3/8'' laminates which were laminated with resin and 3 1/2 oz cloth in the boat since the transom has a curve. I used an assortment of clamps and sheet rock screws with plywood washers from the outside for the first 2 laminates then for the last laminate I used shorter screws from the inside so as to lessen going thru the outer skin. I cut the transom about 1/4'' above the shell and will cut the remainder once I figure out the best cutting tool and double check the angle by placing the splash well on and taking notes?.

I removed all the deck and ground out the edge where it butted up against the hull. There is still a lip there which I think is left over from original filet. I am debating weather to remove that as well but it does seem to have a good line that I can use to create a template easier with and ensure the deck will align with the proper height for the tops of the stringers.

I started looking closer at the stringers which I had previously thought were ok but I found a few bad spots in several of them. I thought of trying to remove sections but since I am not using epoxy I am not sure if trying to glue in a section, (scarf), will be the best so I wound up removing two of them and have them in there entirety and i will make templates and try fit them and think more about how to best to proceed with the rest of them. Probably wind up remove them all and replacing them encapsulating in CSM with P. Resin and setting them in peanut butter and covering with 1708. They look to be a hard wood and I need to figure out what is best to replace with. A laminate of plywood or something different.

I took more pictures and updated to the photo bucket site. Sorry that they are not in chronological order.

One thing I am concerned about is weather my hull support is robust enough to prevent any flexing/twisting of the hull. I have a picture of it if anyone can comment it would be greatly appreciated.

http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/socal_23760/1968 Glasspar Tacoma/

I'd remove and replace all the stringers. Better to be safe than sorry. I'd laminate them up from Plywood. You can leave the lip or grind it off. Your choice. I prefer to grind it off. Hopefully you have taken measurements of the width of your hull at the deck level and at the cap level so you can enusre that it is the same when you reinstall everything. If not , your cap won't fit. Not sure I understand your question about your hull support being robust enough. Please explan further.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

By looking at two of the pics in photobucket, where you have a 2x4 frame supporting the front of the hull...that looks OK, but...

I would double and triple check your cap's width at several places along its length, and add some more support to your hull near the middle...

I used a couple of 1x2's across the hull at the correct width for the top cap, and attached 1x2's running fore and aft, to those to maintain the correct hull width.

Not sure how well the attached pic shows this, but I hope it helps...

Also, this is by no way the only way to do this...the idea is to properly support the hull so that it doesn't spread out while doing all of the work and later have it be too wide for the cap to fit on.

Best Regards,
GT1M

 

[zopperman]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Just a few other suggestions... you can use ratchet straps... keep it on the trailer... but GT's way is very good and simple to make. When I did my caravelle (before giving up) I used a 2x4 and screwed it right into the side of the hull through and old rub railing screw hole...

 

[r16409]

Re: 1969 Glasspar Tacoma Transom and Deck redo...

Thanks for the feedback!

After some consideration on weather my hull support was robust enough to prevent flex while the deck/stingers are out I decided to go ahead and put the cap and splash well back on. I wanted to double check that my transom repair did not throw anything off and figured if the cap/splash fit on that I hopefully am ok. I am also thinking that I may try to leave the cap on while I do the stringers and deck - it should not hamper things too much. They did fit on without too much difficulty. I had to do some grinding to get the correct angles for the splash well on the inside edges of the new transom but otherwise everything seemed to fit up nicely. I updated a few pictures lowering the cap back on which was suspended from rafters in my garage. I will add additional pictures of the cap/splash well in place and where I had to grind to get the proper angle.

I went ahead and did a test with the PL glue on a small piece of my marine plywood and am amazed how strong that adhesive is. I'm thinking of using it to laminate the stringers then covering in Polyester Resin and glassing in place as per some of the well documented examples here on iboats.

Unfortunately I was too stupid to think to measure the distance at deck level between the hull sides so I can get a good template made for the new deck. I guess I will have to do that after the stringers are back in place. I should be able to remove all the stringers in there entirety so hopefully I can get them cut to the correct size. Also thinking of adding some height so the deck has a crown for better water flow....

http://s787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/socal_23760/1968 Glasspar Tacoma/

Thank You