Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

rickryder

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

Them cross braces would be your bulk heads. Nice project and a great looking boat! :D
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

thanks rickryder: nice four winns my dads friend had one of those growing up. yours is beauitufl. use to tube behind it with the 350. big WAKE :)

oops thanks again. im sure your busy helping many nubes this is my first boat, well technically second. im only 23yr coming out of Massachusetts in the middle of winter up here. i think u have posted on my thread before but im gonna post it again... and perhaps you and some other vets can lend a hand...my girlfriend is starting to complain about the amount of time i spend sifting through the forums.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=458416
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

and your girlfriend will never stop....this is addicting....im at work...glassing in sub zero temps....and im on the forum repling to this....lol :p

ok....csm is the workhorse of the fiberglass industry.

the proper way (imho) to do a stringer is....tab in all the way with csm....
small tab with 1708....then full wrap of 1708.
(i dont lay 1708 against 1708...i allways put matt between...but you can do 1708 matt side against the outer layer of 1708)

in my thread it explanes why. ,,,,but basically...resin is brittle....mat soaks up the resin and makes it strong ....its short strands have super bonding ability with what ever substraight you put it against.

the matt in the 1708 is thin......and the top layer of the outer(fabric side) is coarse....so there will be a weak resin rich (brittle) layer between the two layers.
for stregnt you can do 2 full wraps of 1708......more is over kill and extra weight.

ok....gotta get back to glassing now...its -5 c...lol
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

first, what do you mean small tab with 1708? like 1708 tape? after they are tabbed with csm?

i also found a marine fiberglass supply store within 30 min of me.
They sell System Three General Purpose Epoxy Resin for $487 for the 7.5 gallon kit
I know ill need more but it beats any online price i can find before shipping.
http://www.mertons.com/Epoxy/epoxy_resins/system_three.html

they also sell 50" 24oz nonwoven double bias stitch mat (1708) i believe for $8.00 a yrd
http://www.mertons.com/Reinforcements/double_stitch.html

ive thoroughly inspected all the glass supporting the stringers(about half way up each stringer) the class has no voids, rips, tears, cracks, bubbles, or brittle. can i just remove the old stringer, sand out the old glass. use some PL adhesive or ooops peanutbutter to seat the stringer, and coat the sides of the glass and wood to bond them?. then wrap the entire stringer to the hull using a couple layers of 1708/then matt/ 1708?

or should i grind out the glass? ill take pictures... im not trying to save work or be lazy. the glass is in good condition, and i really did inspect it well. i obviously dont have a trained eye however. so ill put some pics tonight
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

after calling and talking to the guy at the store. he recommends that i cut out the remaining glass, then if my strake is big enough, try to use a 2x6 as they are already rounded on the edge, and trying to round plywood leaves a messy edge) he recommended buying from a lumber yard that keeps there lumber inside but not HD or lowes.

i think im going to use epoxy resin with 17.oz double bias cloth he said wrapping it twice will be way more than enough strength and bond then ill ever need. and that this cloth wets out better with epoxy than the stitch mat, and where epoxy is stronger, there is no real need for the mat. he also said i could use this same mat to do the transom. and that i can just buy thixothopic powder(silica) to use to seat the stringer and use a spoon or pvc pipe to fillet where it meets the floor.

the 24 oz unwoven double bias stitch mat is more for use with poly resin
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

so ive decided on wood for my stringers, still unsure about what im gonna use for my transom. if i get wood either 1x6 or 3/4" marine ply, how long should i dry it? i have space to keep it in my apt. and i could put a space heater near them or cover over them with tarps to really keep the heat from the space heater in (without causing a fire hazard of course) will a couple weeks be okay? if i use the space heater can it been a week? or is the space heater a bad idea, causing the wood to dry to fast and cracking? or something.... i mean wood is kiln dried but then transported on trucks in the weather... so it should be fine right?
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

Do I even need to dry the wood if I'm sealing it with epoxy?
 

oops!

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

yep....the reason to dry the wood so that it accepts the resin......the wood....any wood must be good and dry.

i take all my ext grade ply....and put a heater and a fan on it for 2 weeks at least....if you are in a high humidity enviroment....use a de-humidifier in the area
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

You use exterior grade? Do I need to use marine ply? I can get it for $75 for 3/4. Or 56 for 1/2". Exterior is still less than half. If exterior is fine to use, then I'll use it as my stringer. I still might use 1x6 instead. And I'll probably use marine ply for the transom. As it has no voids
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

i suppose it doesnt matter weather or not the stringer has small voids in the ply as it would for the transom as the flex is on different directions. so i guess i could see how exterior grade would be fine. also the weather resistant glue probably doesnt matter too much when using epoxy resin because it is not a permeable membrane. its water proof if im not mistaken.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

the marine ply vs ext grade is a huge discussion here and any where....this depends solely on your budget....

either is fine.....including for the transom....the no void thingy is not that much of a worry in a transom....where marine grade really applies in in a home made wooden boat....and then its for hulls.
(if you have an i/o.....and you cut the out drive hole.....and if murphy is there and you see a void in the cut out area....just fill the void with peanut putter...the void will only be the thickness on one veneer layer of ply) ;)

i used pressure treated on my boat.....but i had 4 months to dry it...if i did not have that time i would have used ext grade....i have used ext grade on several coustomers boats.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

oh....and the water resistant glue is a huge thing. reguardless of poly or epoxy....ext grade has the same water resistant glue as marine grade
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

so why is it more expensive? blemishes, joints, knots and grade of the outside veneer? who cares what it looks like? the only reason im hesitant on using ply is because i want to router the edges so the glass wont bubble and will adhere. and plywood gets messy with corners, suppose i could sand it. either way thanks for the help. ill buy my wood tomorrow, as i was planning on doing the stringers next weekend, i suppose ill put it off another week and work on something else.

oops i want to thank you for all your help. if it wasnt for you guys, i wouldnt even be attempting this....well i would have but i would have put it back together wrong :p
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

its more expencive because its marine ! it also much dryer than regular ply. but thats it.
less/no voids....good glue...lots of plys....dry = marine and big bux.

as far as routering the edge...yes...BUT.....the big 1708 will still not go around it...the csm will especially if you half rip it at the bend...(half ripping breaks the binders in the csm....this make it far more suceptable to corners)

the 1708 needs a wider gap than a sharp u bend....also if your cloth isnt perfectly layed over the wood....angles in the cloth will form and air voids will occure.....

dont kid your self....wrapping a stringer is a delemma that we have been having for years....just do the best you can....if you botch the job...just grind out the air bubbles after its cured....and fill with peanut butter, and cover with a few layers half ripped csm
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

one thing that i have allways wanted to try with fiberglass...mabe you can and tell us) is to iron the fiberglass first......its glass (yes real glass) and suceptable to heat....so if you iron it it just may make life easyer.....give it a shot...(dont use wifeys iron....get a cheap one from a second hand store)
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

im using the 17oz doube bias cloth. im not sure if its 1708 or not. regardless what do u mean half ripping, like pulling on the cloth where the bend will be? as to stretch it out? or actually tearing it? but how do u only half tear through fibers? i plan on actually making a practice hull and stringer because i have never layed glass before so before i do it on a big scale i will do it only on a foot wide section to see what ways work best to lay the glass, which direction to roll it(which takes out bubble, or causes bubbles)how much i will need to wet out the cloth. and also to test hardner times i know they are all stated such as 25 min or 10 min or an hour. but whos to know how much i can get done in that time frame....so a couple practice pieces before i even attempt anything in my boat.
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

essentially just 2 1/6s one that buts against another and fillet with putty on the bottom as a string would be, then practice laying glass on it.


i have a snowboard wax iron (no holes in it) and im sure it wont harm it. so ill try when i try to do the practice lay ups on my practice make shift hull/stringer rig.
 

Rellik546

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

so if i lay the stringer make a wide radius fillet maybe 1.5" radius? then instead of wrapping the entire stringer with the double bias, i can use the 10" tape on the 6" high stringer, and will bond with 4" of the hull. this would reach to the top of the string but not cap it so to speak. then after i do this to both sides, i could cap the top with some csm. or just wrap the whole stringer with csm. going 2inchs beyond where the bias tape goes on the whole to assure a good mechanical bond.
 

Peteco

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Aug 12, 2009
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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

Keep in mind that, in theory, the plywood acts as a core and the fiber-resin matrix provides the strength. The core is there to act only as a shear web.

In this case, the plywood is GROSSLY over-strength, and some small voids have absolutely no bearing.

In practice, many parts of our boats are almost like "stitch and glue" structures, where the plywood provides stiffness and strength, with chopped strand mat attaching pieces together and providing some percentage of the strength of the overall sandwich, and with the CSM adding considerable stiffness (not to be confused with strength) and of course waterproofing. In this case, any suspect underlying material could be reinforced by throwing one more layer of CSM on top of it, if in doubt, or you could fill the void with any structural filler.

From a practical standpoint, these structures aren't even remotely stressed to the point that you would experience a failure due to an interlaminar void in the plywood.

The ONLY application where marine ply (voidless ply?) would mean squat would be in the case of compression forces on the sandwich that would somehow occur over the void. An example could be through-bolts with a large amount of tension on them. In that case, normal sandwich hard point techniques could be used and all would be well.

It wouldn't be difficult to make a transom out of a fiberglass-styrofoam sandwich; the hard points would have to be placed appropriately, and the stresses calculated in order to design an appropriate layup schedule. Aircraft wings capable of withstanding 10+ G's are made this way, so a boat transom is well within the capability of these materials.

Debates about whether to use marine ply in our boats is like arguing whether a shotgun or bazooka is best for fly hunting, while dismissing the flyswatter as grossly underpowered.
 

Cadwelder

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Re: Method and associated cost for stringer and deck repair

one thing that i have allways wanted to try with fiberglass...mabe you can and tell us) is to iron the fiberglass first......its glass (yes real glass) and suceptable to heat....so if you iron it it just may make life easyer.....give it a shot...(dont use wifeys iron....get a cheap one from a second hand store)

I've used a heat gun and didn't have great results. To go around stringers (if time isn't an issue) I lay the 1708 out and use round steel bars to hold it in place for a few days and it tends to take the shape better.
 
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