Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

[Rellik546]

Hey all

just want to thank everyone so far for all the help, i have a couple different threads as i have many questions and new ones arising everyday. i try to read through previous threads so i dont repeat the same questions, so if i ask a question and there is a thread about it already, just post the link (there is so much to digest in these forums, easy to get buried).

anyways i figured i would just open one thread and ask all my questions through it. to consolidate all my questions and answers, and so the people that answer will be more familiar with my boat/setup.

So my boat is pretty dirty but mechanically sound. i took out the bow cushions to remove the mold and mildew. so far ive washed them with warm water with dish soap, Simple Green diluted down to 1 part per 3 parts water. and used a magic eraser lightly.(dont really like the idea of it because its abrasive). there still seems to be spots, perhaps deep embedded mold/mildew? or maybe its just wear from not being taken care of. ill post some pictures and let me know what you think? they dont feel rough when i run my hand over the discolored part so i dont think it is wear. any other recommendations? im hesitant to use bleach i dont know how poor of shape the threads are in. there currently arent any rips tears or seperation at the threads so maybe they are in good condition.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

is it even possible to get them cleaner than this? there are still spots. would marine nine, or a specific marine cleaner like star brite vinyl cleaner and shampoo work?

 

[F14CRAZY]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

I used the 3M marine vinyl cleaner on my camper top and it worked pretty well to remove mildew from the previous owner. Took a long time with a toothbrush though. It's worth a shot. With those cushions since you don't have much sewing you could strip the vinyl and recover them. Jo-ann fabrics has it and often has 40% off coupons you can use on bulk vinyl. I'll post some pix when I get home in a bit

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

if i cant get them cleaner i will contemplate replacing the vinyl the problem is only the bow seat cushions are simple, the back supports are l--white--l-- blue--l-- white--l and i have no sowing experience. i wished i took pictures of before i cleaned them at all...i wiped them down with warm soapy water before removing them from the boat....they were gross. i will order some of that 3m marine vinyl cleaner. they have some concentrated rv awning cleaner at walmart. ad imagine its remotely similar anything with the word marine infront of the product name seems to automatically add 10 bux. at the same time, i know automotive stuff is bad for the marine vinyl because lots are petroleum based and eat the uv coating and such. after i get them super clean im hitting them with a conditioner then with 303 as directed by the iboats community

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

I have had Great luck with "black streak remover" and the Majic eraser Combined ..

First let the BSR set for - + a few minutes..then scrub with the Eraser..scrubb a little..working it in all directions. Then Rinse well with water !

I have not had any bad reactions with the chem in the products with vinyl covered EX covers.

Wear gloves.

YD.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

that black streak remover is RV stuff, i think they sell it at walmart?

someone said u acetone, but dont apply it directly to the vinyl, put it on the cloth wipe once, then change to a clean part of the cloth and repeat. this seems like a last ditch effort. if the 3m marine vinyl doesnt work. ill try that black streak remover.

Thanks for the help guys.

so i was going through the receipts of the boat today. apparently the motor that in it is not the one that came with the boat. how can i figure out what year the motor is? i also was told that the 1988 mercruiser 3.0l has a faulty thermostat? and they make an upgrade kit for it? is this true? and if so can anyone point me in the right direction?. its still a 3.0l mercruiser, also come to find out it has a rebuilt aphla 1 gen 1 as of 3 years ago. looks like a scored pretty decent. only concern on the outdrive reciept it said reason for replacing drive was because it hit a rock. i knocked around the transom. its solid everywhere. and there was nothing on the reciept about having to repair the transom...just alil worry some.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

I also found a soft spot on either side of the ski locker, and on the port side of the engine cover, but its on the inside of the cover.

Looks like ill be taking out the back to back seats and pulling the carpet and possibly cutting the floor out...hopefully...hopefully the stringers are fine. the rest of the floor seems solid. the ski locker doesnt have any support for about 6 inches until its supported by a stringer right at the back to back seat base.

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Good luck on the soft spots and as for the cushions try soft scrub I use it for the same issue you have every year except last year (stored all lose cushions in the house) just use a soft brush and constant circular motion and rinse with cold water.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

why cold water? wouldnt warm water open the pours in the vinyl to help release mold/mildew/dirt/grime? or does the cold water compress the pours forcing the grime out?

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

does anyone know how to figure out what year a engine is? like a serial number? or something of that sort. my boat doesnt have the original motor and i want to know what year it is so i can replace the thermostat

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

so after looking into the ski locker the plywood is good, not wet, still yellow and hard not mushy, however around the entire locker there is unsupported deck at least 6" all the way around. and the floor sags quite a big on either side and in the front of the locker. the front has a piece of wood reinforcing it, but it is just screwed to the bottom of the deck its like 5"x5" it keeps the deck from flexing i guess, but it still sags when you step on it. when the teak locker cover is on it doesnt seem to flex as bad as ur weight is distributed better.

i also pulled the carpet down on both sides of the locker to inspect the stringers they both seem fine but i didnt take a core sample. i will do that after work today.

my middle windshield will not close without moving either side one. im not sure if this is due to a sagging console, a rotted stringer or floor underneath, or just the fact that my boat is sitting on a bunk trailer.

these pictures are of the underside of the front of the ski locker. the yellow thing on the first and 3rd photo and the square piece in the second photo is that 5x5 support. also after closely inspecting the wood in the front, it looks wet/rotted. my bow is fiberglassed then at the beginning of the two consoles it changes to wood than a few inches back is where the ski locker starts. the sides of the locker are dry and not rotted.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

has anyone fixed or repaired/reinforced the area around the ski locker, without doing the whole floor? the rest of my deck after core samples is fine

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

This is a great thread documenting a thorough repair (as opposed to a total rehab) http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=2486474

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

just an update.

spent yesterday, removing all the hardware from the boat: back to back seats, ski locker trim, gas tank access panel, whatever the side panels are called. the back panel that holds the back rest for the 2 rear seats. basically gutted the rear section of the boat minus the engine(no hoist)

the carpet is one piece that goes all the way up both walls on either side and goes under the fiber glass that rolls around from the outside. Should i remove it all? or just cut it where it meets the deck. and only remove the deck carpet?. also my bow is a fiberglassed bow including the floor. i looked up under the ski locker and the wood that supports the floor under the fiberglass is good. however where the fiberglass floor that is part of the bow ends, and the deck begins between the 2 consoles, there is a stringer under it where they meet. this area was the worse part of the deck. if i drill a sample from it and its rotted how would you repair it? i only have access to one side and half of the top of the stringer...

Im thinking if its rotted the only thing i could do is perhaps cut the glass off on the one side remove the would, then tab that glass back into place all around where i cut, drill a 1/2 hole in the top of the hollow stringer/fiberglass shell and pour in some sea cast? Unless there is another way?

i also noticed that my motor doesnt have supports on the rear motor mounts. it is only mounted on the front motor mounts, and then the metal tabs on the inside of the transom assembly. is this okay? or is this too much vibration/stress on the transom? there is room for me to build a mount to support the rear in the bilge area.

what is the best/easiest way to cut the deck out? most of the visible stringers seem fine and most of the floor seems fine. but i figured while im already at it, i might as well rip up the entire floor and check all the stringers just to be sure. I only have a circular saw and a sawzall at the moment. i feel like the circular saw is the best option because i can set the depth. but i was reading in other threads about people cutting through there decks. im also alil nervous because im not sure where the gas tank ends length wise and i dont want to puncture the tank. i figured its as wide as the stringer. its only a 20 gal tank. would it stretch all the way to the back of the ski locker stringer?

pictures to follow...couldnt find my camera

and thanks everyone for all your help!!!!

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

so ive been through a bunch of threads lately and my heads spinning.

where i am at now

the floor is removed and the stringers are exposed. we decided to replace them even though parts are good. everything up under the bow cap looks good, dry and yellow. couldnt reach up there with a drill to check stringers or the plywood. but there really isnt a way for water to get up there.(no cracks in the bow cap fiberglass) the whole bow cockpit area is covered by the cap that includes the bow floor/seats.

my questions.

is it okay to only replace the stringer from the console back? if its only suppose to be one piece. i can remove the cap from the boat and remove all the flooring and the whole stringer. but if its okay to just do pieces of it and somehow tie it together for strength some how

in my boats design would it be okay to substitute foam for the wood even if the foam costs more?
what kind of foam do i use. id like to do epoxy because it is stronger than polyester. or is epoxy really over kill? is polyester plenty strong enough to glass in stringers?

another question? does it matter what kind of resin was used in the original construction of the boat. in terms of bonding new fiberglass to it.

ive also read alot about people using seacast and similar products. i know there are some experienced people in here that maybe have laid different kinds of stringers.

What would a ball park cost of wood stringer(marine plywood) with epoxy vs polyester?
what would be a ball park cost of using foam?
what would be a ball park cost of using seacast?
(i know most of these have advantages and disadvantages and assuming they will all keep the boats performance the same. the only variable being cost)

keep in mind its a 17' boat with 4 stringers. i know measurements are critical to accurately figuring out cost. but im just asking people who have done similar sized projects what it cost them.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

here are some pics

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the floor is all pulled up minus the heavily tabbed edge. all the yellow is expand foam i believe. not sure if that was factory or someone did this after. regardless its getting removed

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

are all epoxy resins equal? like west systems, aeromarine, system 3, flag, or everfix. i noticed a substantial difference between the prices of these resins. are some more diluted than others? i need a strong resin for doing my stringers as i will be using the boat at full capacity and wakeboarding/tubing (taking some hard waves (within reason))

what kind of mat do you recommend? i know there is alot of info out there and i have read many threads. however i have very specific questions. not just the cheapest fix. i want to make sure it will be strong.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

more pics coming soon

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

http://s1100.photobucket.com/albums/g416/rellik546/?start=all&mediafilter=images]

soo many pictures

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

did my final drill tests on the boat today. every piece of wood in the structure of the boat is shot, stingers, transom, deck, motor mounts. all is gonna get ripped out.

i dont have a garage, and its currently sitting on a bunk trailer. i want to remove the cap so i will loose support by doing that. and i imagine that removing all the wood at the same time would cause it to sag. so this is my thought on what to do

1 remove cap
(perhaps using threaded bar to tie together the two sides of the hull in a couple spots to keep it from twisting) stole this from ooopss

2 remove motor/drive/gas tank

3 cut inner shell of transom, to remove rotted wood and remove the bilge stringer(see below and pictures)

4 replace transom (contemplating seacast or nida core i would obviously not remove the inner shell if i decide to use either) if i stick with wood, ill laminate 2 3/4" pieces with pl, then fit it in, using Oooops peanut butter to seat it against hull, clamp or bolt it. let set then remove clamps and bolts, then glass it in with a few layers of glass after tabbing it into place.

5 replace bilge stringers and ribs with wood and poly (single 3/4" marine grade ply) then cap, the old stringers are glassed half way, i would run additional cloth over the whole stringer and probably 4" to hull layup another thats 6"

6 remove rest of ribs and stringers and replace as i did in step 5

7 install sealed deck with 2 layers of glass on bottom, and make sure end grains receive healthy amounts of poly to absorb.

8 tab deck to hull, then glass over it then cloth over glass

What type of cloth should i use for all of this? i want it to be strong, can i just use biax, 1708(i here its a pain to layup), cloth, or mat?



in the first picture you see the stringer end at the bilge, then starts again but staggered a few inches to the left then runs to the transom, is this normal? if it isnt, is it okay structurely?

Also is 3/4" ply sturdy enough for a stringer. everyone here always talks how they double up there stringers to 1.5"

in the second picture its kind of hard to see, but that piece of wood u see is a 2X2 attached to the stringer behind it...but why? it cant possibly add support, other than keeping the ribs from collapsing, but this bulkhead and the one on the opposite side both have them

picture 3, shows that same 2x2 attached the stringer, and how the next bulkhead doesnt have one. as well as the expand foam removed....the foam was done by someone not by factory. each spot in the floor above each bulkhead had a whole drilled through the floor that wasnt sealed....


picture 4 shows that staggering of the stringers, at the end of the bilge area

picture 5 is this brace over the gas tank okay? its not glassed in, the wood isnt sealed and its attached with ss or aluminum angle iron...