Gel coat or paint?

[Cmac2008]

Hey guys I'm getting along good on my 77 champion rebuild. Got the motor off. Got the hull separated and now I am working on the transom. I'm looking ahead a couple steps and would like to get some information on repainting my boat. I would really like to put a new gel coat on it but I know it's easier said than done. The old coat is pretty rough shape and I just don't think there is any saving it. I know it needs to be dewaxed and sanded down but is gel coat somthing I can fit into my budget? I want to do this all myself so a shop is out of the question. I have seen alot of boats painted but I just like the flakey gel coat look. What are your thoughts on the two. Also any links on step by step would be appreciated

 

[gm280]

Cmac2008, this subject has been tossed around many times on these forums. And it really boils down to what you want. Both Gel Coat and Paint take similar prep work to get a nice final result. You have to sand the hull down and repair any blemishes and fill in gouges and deep scratches. And if there are any real problems in the hull, those need to be reworked first. Gel Coat can be applied by yourself and so can paint. Lots of folks forego the Gel Coat because even after you have successfully applied Gel Coat, you then have to sand it smooth and polish it out for a great glossy shine. With paint you can achieve that glossy shine a lot easier. I am going the paint route myself because I am use to painting things like that. But some iboat members like Gel Coat and will chime in here to explain the process of how to do that. The the final results in any finish is all in the prep work before painting or Gel Coating. JMHO

 

[Cmac2008]

I agree with you gm80. I have painted a few things in my life including big block motors and I plasti dipped my 2009 silverado. Not a pro by a long shot. I guess I am just not educated on gel coat. I do understand the importance of prep work and being in missouri it will be a long winter so I have nothing but time to get my boat ready for spring fishing. One of my main concerns in this decision is tools. I have a hvlp sprayer but didn't know if gel coat can be put threw one. I have a pancake air compressor but will it put enough air out to complete a job the size of a boat. I am currently doing all the research I can on gel coating but my head is spinning.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Pancake compressor will not do the job or even come close. If anything, it will ruin it for you since you will be waiting for the tank to fill way more than the gelling clock allows you to. When you add the catalyst to the resin, the clock is ticking on you (Max of 15 minutes but it could be much less) before the gelcoat starts to gel in your equipment and ruin them.

Gelcoat is extremely easy to apply when the boat is being built because it is the very first layer of building the hull and everything else is just added on top of it. Because it gets sprayed inside the mold which already has a silky smooth surface, it comes out of the mold already "finished".

When you refinish the boat with gel, you have no such advantage. Spraying is just the beginning and it must be followed by countless hours of sanding to get this smooth and shinny finish. Think of the process as polishing a rock so to speak.

If the achievement itself means a lot to you as a builder or craftsman, go for it. There is a thread on the forum that I will look for and post you a link to that will help you great deal. If all you are looking for is to put a durable and beautiful finish on your boat so you can go enjoy boating and fishing, there are so many marine top coats out there that gives you a breath taking results with just a roll and tip method.

 

[alldodge]

You can brush or roll gelcoat on but can not spray using a hvlp, you need a dump gun and a compressor to put out more air then a pancake.

 

[Scott Danforth]

There are specific gel HVLP guns available. You would need a real compressor however as you would burn out the pancake compressor ( they are not intended for 100% duty)

 

[Woodonglass]

You can get that "Flaky" look with Paint too! You don't have to use Gel.

As stated if you do go with Gel, a 60 gal. 5 hp compressor is the smallest unit I'd attempt to use for shooting gelcoat. I also recommend using a pressurized HVLP paint gun with a 2.5 - 3.0 nozzle.

http://www.harborfreight.com/64-oz-professional-hvlp-air-spray-gun-kit-62895.html

 

[Cmac2008]

Wow man that does look really good. After a little more research I'm really starting to lean more towards the paint with flake. If I do go with paint will I still need to upgrade my air compressor? Also I see alot of people use just implement enamel. Would this suffice or is there other paint out there that would be better but not kill my wallet?

 

[jbcurt00]

Implement paint wont be a flake..... price flake and candy clear. That wont be inexpensive.

A pancake wont keep up. You dont want to be spraying and run out of air volume or have low pressure. The compressor part simply doesnt have enough output to supply the gun directly.

Read thru some resto topics. I can think of at least 3 that tried to use undersized compressors. 2 had the motors fail after overheating and another quit using it when it wouldnt keep up. Kept having to spray a little, wait for the compressor to refill the air tank, and then start again. Wait time was longer then spraying time.

 

[Cmac2008]

Implement paint wont be a flake..... price flake and candy clear. That wont be inexpensive.

A pancake wont keep up. You dont want to be spraying and run out of air volume or have low pressure. The compressor part simply doesnt have enough output to supply the gun directly.

Read thru some resto topics. I can think of at least 3 that tried to use undersized compressors. 2 had the motors fail after overheating and another quit using it when it wouldnt keep up. Kept having to spray a little, wait for the compressor to refill the air tank, and then start again. Wait time was longer then spraying time.

OK looks like I will be finding a new to me compressor. It may take me some time but I understand the issues. So the way I understand I will be painting the boat first then my flake and clear coats follow? Can I still use the implement paint for the first coat then add the flake and clear on top?

 

[jbcurt00]

You want to stick w 1 'family' of products. I'd get all the paint 'stuff' (primer too) all from 1 place. You dont want any risk of failure from similar, but incompatible paints.

 

[ondarvr]

You need to use the same brand (system) paint for all of it, no mixing and matching paints.

Doing a flake job with gel coat is a difficult multi step process, it allows many opportunities for failure. Paint isn't easy either, but it isn't as complicated.

 

[Cmac2008]

You want to stick w 1 'family' of products. I'd get all the paint 'stuff' (primer too) all from 1 place. You dont want any risk of failure from similar, but incompatible paints.

It looks like the recommended majic brand has the primer paint and clear. The only thing I would be adding not of brand would be the flakes. Would there still be a problem?

 

[Scott Danforth]

for a compressor, take the recommendation on pressure and flow requirements for the spray equipment and double them. if your spray equipment says 3CFM make sure you have 6cfm available.

I burned out two pancake compressors using them with my touchup guns when painting a small fuel tank. why fire up the big compressor..........

if you want a metal flake paint job, your not going to be using majic brand tractor paint. your going to need a good base-coat / top coat product from DuPont or PPG.

the Majic clear is lacquer vs the implement enamel. it will wrinkle and lift your paint if you dont let it cure for more than 7 days. you could experiment adding flake to the Majic clear, however your on your own there (plus you will need the metal flake gun)

 

[Woodonglass]

Uhmmm Scott, if you watch the video I posted, you'll see you DON'T need a special metal Flake gun to get fairly decent results shooting flake. The size of the flake determines the size of nozzle needed. I AGREE Totally with you about the Majic paint and Flake It would be a Toss up. I personally MIGHT try it but I can't recommend it now!!!!

TCPGlobal has some good Guns and Paint products for reasonable prices.

I'd guess a Base Coat/MetalFlake Paint Job will run about $400 for the paint products. You can find used compressors on CL from $300-600 bucks. I got my 60 gallon Craftsman 5 years ago for $250 and she's still running strong.

 

[Cmac2008]

Ok I would like to make me a shopping list. About how much product would I need to do my 17' boat? I will be doing inside and out. If I'm going the paint route from tcpglobal will just any automotive paint work? Or does it need to be marine grade. My boat will only be on the water while I am fishing then I will have a cover on it when I am not. What products have you used and what do you recommend? So what I will need is primer, paint, clear and flakes correct?

 

[Woodonglass]

Yup any of the Car paint sold by TCPG will work. You can call them and explain your project and they WILL help guide you to the right products. They are GREAT guys!!!! I'd estimate 2 quarts of Primer, 2 Qts Paint and appropriate amount of reducer, and a Gallon of Clear but...They should know the quantities if you give them the Sq. Ft. of area you will be painting. Try and be as accurate as possible. Check out their paint guns too. Very nice and good prices.

Having said all this...I'd recommend concentrating on getting her structurally sound before ordering any Paint supplies. That will come later. Get the Stringers, Transom and Deck done

Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms

and then you can think about the cosmetics.

 

[Cmac2008]

Yup any of the Car paint sold by TCPG will work. You can call them and explain your project and they WILL help guide you to the right products. They are GREAT guys!!!! I'd estimate 2 quarts of Primer, 2 Qts Paint and appropriate amount of reducer, and a Gallon of Clear but...They should know the quantities if you give them the Sq. Ft. of area you will be painting. Try and be as accurate as possible. Check out their paint guns too. Very nice and good prices.

Having said all this...I'd recommend concentrating on getting her structurally sound before ordering any Paint supplies. That will come later. Get the Stringers, Transom and Deck done

Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms[/URL]

and then you can think about the cosmetics.

Thanks man I am currently working on the transom. I'm just trying to plan ahead and do some research for my next step while I am sitting in the house. It will be awhile b4 I am ready for paint but I like to plan ahead so I know how much money I won't tell my wife about

 

[Woodonglass]

LOL, Boy do I understand THAT!!!! Like I said, My Guesstimate for all the Paint supplies from TCPG should run about $400.
Here's their Urethane Basecoat kit.http://www.tcpglobal.com/RSP-UB1508-KIT-M-P.html#.WA6jx8lEAdU

$290

All you'd need to add is Flake and Primer. Primer should run about $60 and 6oz of flake for about $25

Again, I'm guessing but if you call them they WILL KNOW!!!

 

[gm280]

Primer, paint and clear coats all depends on their mix ratios. For example, the Primer that I am using is a PPG 2k JP202 High built. It shoots at a 4:1 ratio. Meaning four volumes of primer with one volume of hardener. If you want to thin that out you can add one volume of reducer as well. The base coats (colors) I am using JBXXX mixes at 1:1 ratio. Meaning one volume of color to one volume of reducer. The clear coat I am using PPG JC630 is mixed at a 4:1 ratio, again meaning 4 volumes of clear to one volume of hardener. So When you start figuring how much of everything you will need, you have to know the square footage you have and then figure out the material application ratios and then buy the proper amounts of pimer, base coat and clear coat materials. I always buy way more then I would need for those UH OH's that you never ever plan on. JMHO