1989 Starcraft 221V restoration

[KevinHall]

Guys/Gals,

I have a 1989 StarCraft 221V that I'm in the process of redoing floors, foam, a couple rivets, Gluvit etc. I did the transom 2 years ago and she's good to go. Here's my question, and I'm expecting 50/50 responses. I have been religiously searching whether to use rigid foam sheets or expansion foam. Now, I'm leaning towards rigid, because a friend of mine used it on his 22 SS with great results. Can anyone on here tell me for sure whether the extra rigidity of the expansion foam actually DOES provide extra hull strength? If it does, is it noticeable? I'm looking for responses from guys that have gone the rigid pink foam route, and I'd like to know if you found it to be too light, noisy, prone to more rivets loosening, etc. If you've had good luck with it, that's what I'm going with. I also have a ton of pics of the process of this tear down, which I'll share in this post later when I get home from work.

Right now, I'm at the bare hull stage. Old foam is out. I'm all pressure washed. Any tips or tricks from here on in would be fantastic. Yes, I've read every StarCraft resto thread on here, but I'm not seeing any follow-ups on those posts from guys who've done this job. I want to know the longevity of the hull with the rigid sheets vs the expansion foam.

Thanks guys

 

[GA_Boater]

In a tin boat, two-part expanding foam causes problems because it fills every nook and cranny leading to trapped water. Foam insulation sheets cut to fit provide slightly less flotation with much less chance of trapping water. Trapped water leads to corrosion and holes in the hull.

No foam method has structural benefits in these AL boats. The ribs, stringer and deck are the structural elements.

I used foam sheets and it isn't noisy, nor has it caused rivet problems. You won't get 50/50 responses, more like 99/1 because there is always one diehard.

 

[classiccat]

another vote for rigid foam...so far consistent with GaB's Rigid:2-part ratio :lol:

 

[dozerII]

I agree totally with GAB, have used pink or blue foam in all my builds except one and it has worked very well without a problem. It will take some time to cut and fit it properly to get the most in with the least voids.

 

[Woodonglass]

Well if you cut the Slab Foam to the exact correct Height It will provide quite a bit of structural support to the deck. This will allow you to use thinner plywood thus lightening the load of the boat. i.e. 1/2" plywood coated with epoxy or sealed with Old Timers and Painted and totally supported by slab foam will yield a very stable and non-flexing deck surface in an aluminum boat. You don't have to go to the expense and or weight of using 3/4" plywood for the deck.

 

[KevinHall]

Thanks guys, I was leaning towards the rigid foam sheets. I just wanted to hear from someone that's done it with good results.

 

[Grandad]

I used rigid foam and have no complaints. There's no noise I've ever heard. I don't think my foam fits tight enough to add any support to the hull or to the floor. If it did fit that tight, I wonder if it might squeak. In the end, I think that additional support is unnecessary as GA said. - Grandad

 

[KevinHall]

Thanks for all the input. I'll be touching up a dozen or so rivets, laying down some Gluvit, and starting on adding the rigid foam. I like the idea of ease of access for future rivet repairs if necessary as well. I boat on Lake Erie, so it will be necessary at some point.

Just out of curiosity, how many sheets did you guys go through to do the job? I'm heading out tomorrow to grab supplies.

 

[Frey0357]

Kevin,
On my 16.5' Sea Nymph I have used about 4 full 4x8 sheets. I found it to be a PITA to get all the pieces cut, but once I did I was happy with the result. The flooring will be supported nicely and I can only use 1/2" plywood on mine so that is a plus for me. The factory used spray in foam and it damaged the hull in some places, and warped the flooring slightly in other areas, not a fan of the spray in stuff!

Here are my pics:

Not pretty but functional! It is completely covered by the flooring.....

Frey

 

[KevinHall]

Looks great. Here's some shots of my progress so far. Finally got the foam out...

 

[oldhaven]

Those are the most prominent scribe or witness lines I have seen so far, and the rivets seem to follow the lines more than mine. Thanks for that picture.

 

[Watermann]

"welcome" to the Starmada Kevin! Nice Chief you got there, we don't see too many of those "new" models around here very often. :thumb:

All I've used is the rigid foam board on my builds, it's perfectly suited and really isn't that tough to deal with compared to removing that soggy mess you had.

 

[KevinHall]

Thanks guys. How about flooring? What are your feelings on marine grade vs regular ply? I have spar varnish to treat the wood. I'm not opposed to using epoxy either. Can standard ply be used or is the marine grade the way to go?

​I plan to finish the top of the floor with Overtons "Tuff Coat" which I've seen in another boat and liked.

 

[Watermann]

Personally I prefer the quality of marine ply for decking. I find it's quality makes it stronger especially if your using 1/2" since it's 5 layers and has no voids. I too like the durability and ease of repair on the tuff coat type of deck covering.

I'm a Helmsman spar user, it's easy to use costs less and readily available.

 

[KevinHall]

Solid rivet Vs Truss head screw

One last question, I've been asking a ton lol. I have about 12 rivets that I had a marina attempt to fix from the outside with closed end blind rivets about 3 years ago. They held up till now. Now, I have my hull completely exposed with floors out. Can I replace these with truss head screws as mentioned in other restoration posts? Is it better to use solid rivets with a riveter and bucking bar? My reason for asking is my lack of access under the trailer. If the screws are a good option, I think I have the room to get under there.

 

[KevinHall]

So, I'm looking to replace about a dozen or so rivets, in the cuddy area. The problem is, some of the rivets aren't accessible due to the trailer. My question is, how strong are these boats with the floors and foam out? As of right now, it's all ribs. If I put my boat on stands to do the rivets, do you guys think I'll be stressing my hull? Looking at the safest option for this repair.

 

[Watermann]

You can slide the boat back leaving the bow strap attached to clear trailer parts. You can also with a couple guys cant the boat on the trailer rolling it to the side to expose the rivets.

With the cabin and bow cover on they are pretty rigid, it's once you remove everything from the boat that they become floppy and you have to be careful. If you're planning on crawling underneath then you better make sure it's super strong and won't come down on you when your rivet bucker is inside moving around.

 

[snowman48047]

You don't list a location, but near me in Michigan there is a company giving away rigid foam scraps, from small 2"x 2" pieces up to 2' x 4' x 4". Enough to literally fill a semi trailer.

 

[KevinHall]

You can slide the boat back leaving the bow strap attached to clear trailer parts. You can also with a couple guys cant the boat on the trailer rolling it to the side to expose the rivets.

With the cabin and bow cover on they are pretty rigid, it's once you remove everything from the boat that they become floppy and you have to be careful. If you're planning on crawling underneath then you better make sure it's super strong and won't come down on you when your rivet bucker is inside moving around.

d​an

The stands I have are the super heavy steel hydraulic stands. But now looking at them, they might be too tall to grab my boat. I like the idea of just sliding it back a bit. I'll just block the rear of the trailer, as she's already right around neutral tongue weight with all the flooring out.

 

[KevinHall]

89' Starcraft Chieftain 221V

I originally posted in another forum, but didn't realize there was a Starcraft specific forum, and didn't know how to move it. So I figure I'll start fresh. I've already been given some great tips and suggestions so far. Here's where I'm at so far. I have an 89' Chieftain 22 fter. From what I've been told, this is the "newer" style. I thought it was the same as an islander, until I fished in my friends' Islander the other day and took note of the differences. This one is definitely beamier than the Islander. So far, I have the foam and floors out. I redid the transom 3 seasons ago with Marine ply. Engine and outdrive function like new. Now that I'm down to the bare hull, I have found my leaks. No cracks or anything serious, but I had 19 rivets replaced from the outside 3 years ago. They used closed end blind rivets, and they have all loosened slightly. They seem to be very slightly larger in diameter than the original rivets. So, right now I'm looking at replacing these rivets properly, and have been searching online for a supplier. One question I'd like to ask you guys, do Truss head machine screws actually work? I read somewhere where someone mentioned they work well. Here's a few pics of where I'm at. Mods, sorry for double posting, please feel free to delete the one in the general repair forum.