50's LoneStar Riveted Aluminum Hull Leaking

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Mar 23, 2016
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Hi all:
New member here. I just bought a LoneStar (model unknown—title says "SPCN", which I think is just the unspecified 'special construction' label they give to older watercraft) thinking I'd restore it.

It has a few leaks, and I went in to rebuck them today, and noticed they're not leaking out of the rivets. It looks more like there was a sheet of metal placed over the seam and then riveted to the hull panels, and the boat looks like it is leaking from the seam rather than the rivets.

I attached a photo. You can see the rivets, and the seam, and it looks like water comes UP and spills over the top of the seam before dripping. So my question is, will rebucking take care of that? I was under the impression that rebucking was mostly for loose rivets. Or will it shore up the seam, as well?

If not, should I just use Gluvit or some other sealer? Or... what?

Any advice would be amazing. Thank you all, super excited to be a part of this community!

image_240198.jpg
 

Watermann

Starmada Splash of the Year 2014
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:welcome: aboard Cheeseburger,

It would be great to see some overall pics of your LS, maybe we could help you out with the model.

That appears to be the keel plate that covers the bow seam. If the rivets aren't loose, tipped or damaged from impact then it's okay to leave them alone. The keel seams are sealed from the inside using gluvit. The area has to be cleaned up really well prior to application. Clean up the inside of the keel plate seam and take some pics of it.
 
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Hi-
Thanks for your reply. I guess my post didn't disappear after all!

On this boat, I don't know if I have access to the keel seam. I don't know if you can see in the last photo, but there's a storage area up front, where the biggest keel seam leak is. The storage area has a "floor" of sorts, and it doesn't look like I can access the keel seam because the floor blocks access.

But I also think it's probably really, really dirty in there. There's a small space up front where water can flow, and I could see a ton of debris flowing out of that area along with the water. No idea how I could access it :/


Here are some more photos?ID might be difficult, because so much is missing!

LS1.jpg LS2.jpg LS3.jpg LS4.jpg
 

Watermann

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I'm not a LS guy, but I love old tin all the same. That is a cool old tinny and good on you for adopting her and giving the old timer another shot at the waves!

Just in case the pics aren't enough when you get a chance post some dimensions, beam width and length.

Snap some pics of the deck area you're thinking is in the way of reaching the keel seam on the inside.

I'm thinking guys like osby can help out here.
 
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Just took some measurements:

Beam: 70 inches, total length: 17 feet, 10 inches (title says 17 feet, 6 inches).
I saw the chart on Fiberglassics, but haven't seen anything that matches yet!



Here is a photo of the interior, right above the leaky keel seam:

LS5.jpg

Kind of hard to see, but you can see the rivets running vertically on either side of what seems to be a weld. That weld is the very low point of the hull, the "sharp" part of the "v" (sorry, I still don't have the vocabulary down!)

There's no real way for me to get to the keel seam. Is this weld supposed to be there? I was under the impression that rivets boats shouldn't have welds. I wonder if there was a leak and some PO decided to weld the seam, and made it worse somehow?

Thanks!
 
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fhhuber

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When you redo the interior... allow access to clean out the bilge. (the inside low part of the hull under the deck)

At some point in trying to seal up a riveted hull, you have to figure out how much leakage is OK to ignore. Sure, you can stop it all if you throw enough money at it... but do you really want to throw that much money at it?

I had a 16 ft Lonestar (forgot which model name) runabout. Just floating at the dock for 4 hours it leaked a whole cup of water. That wasn't worth trying to stop the leak. More splashed in crossing another boat's wake when on plane...

So... how much is it leaking?
 
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hm.
I bet I would get more than a cup in 4 hours. It's really, really hard to estimate how many drops of water make a cup! But I bet I have 6 places on the hull that drip down one drip every second, and then that place on the keel seam that actually has a small flow. Like a faucet on really low?that one doesn't drip slow enough to have individual drops, it's actually a very small flow.

I would GUESS maybe 2-3 cups in an hour? Maybe even more?

Thanks!
 

TruckDrivingFool

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A cheeseburger is always :welcome:

Ok I know :facepalm:

No the weld shouldn't be there, clean up the inside and outside so you can make a good inspection for cracks, If nothing severe is found from what I've read Gluvit should seal it up.

That hull has got that style that is well worth the effort to bring back to ship shape, Looking at all the storage possibilities that interior layout offers makes me jealous.
 
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Thanks!

Regarding the gluvit... what's the best method for application? would I apply it on top of the weld? Or grind the weld off, and try to get the gluvit further down? or some other option that i haven't thought of?

thanks again
 

Watermann

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No the weld shouldn't be there and I'm pretty sure the welding burned out the sealer.

You really have to get the area clean before treating with the gluvit 2 part epoxy or it will make things worse. Worse by being a source of corrosion by letting water in under it and it's a mother to remove. You really need to get the decking out so you can attend to the leaks properly. So how is the deck attached in your LS?
 
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Hm. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "deck".

It looks like... if the keel seam is at the very bottom of the boat, the "inverse apex" of the V, the weld is just right on the inside of the hull from that point.
For all intents and purposes, this boat is ALMOST an open bow boat. It has a bow cover and a storage unit up front, but the floor of the storage unit is the hull.

So I can clean all around the weld, but I don't think I can clean under the weld. I'll plan on doing that either way.

But then do I apply gluvit over the weld, or should the weld come out somehow?

Thanks for all your help so far!
 

TruckDrivingFool

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CB said:
The storage area has a "floor" of sorts, and it doesn't look like I can access the keel seam because the floor blocks access.

The "floor" is the deck he is referring to.That is why he said to get some pics of it so perhaps we can give an idea of how to remove it

Perhaps not entirely into the point of the bow but specifically any of it below or close to the waterline you need access to the brace plate (the part with the weld) and it's seam with the hull tips (the two points folded together to make the bow) The entire area needs to be cleaned.

WM said:
I'm pretty sure the welding burned out the sealer.

I don't know why this didn't hit me until you posted it but yes there's the leak

If it was mine,

I would clean both sides (wire brush, flushed with acetone, blown out with compressed air, perhaps rinsed and repeated) Once it was clean I would check for cracks and the integrity of the weld. Solid weld no cracks - then you're ready continue to the vinegar wash/scrub, rinse, dry, and apply Gluvit. Usually from this point it's just a brush on and let it do it's penetrating but with that weld I'd be tempted to get a syringe and try to force some into the seam around the weld also.
 
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The "floor" is the deck he is referring to.That is why he said to get some pics of it so perhaps we can give an idea of how to remove it



Ah! The confusion is my fault. The floor I was talking about is just the inside of the hull. When I said floor, I was just trying to say that, in my storage compartment, the floor of the storage compartment (which is the inside of the hull) blocks access to the keel seam (because the keel seam is on the outside).

So, in other words, it looks like my boat is set up like this (roughly): Two sheets of aluminum come to a point to make the bow, and are touching all the way back towards the stern, so that the V of the hull starts on the bottom but then continues upwards to the very point of the bow. I bet in welded boats, these two sheets are just welded together to make the hull. On my boat (and maybe all riveted boats, I'm not sure) there is a small piece of metal over this "hull seam". I assume it's filled with sealer, and then riveted in place to seal the hull. I am under the impression that this piece of metal is the keel seam, is this correct?

So, in the bow of my boat, there's a small storage area. The bottom ("floor") of this storage area is the inside of the "hull seam". It appears to have been welded. However, since the "hull seam" is two sheets of metal that are touching, and the "keel seam" runs along the outside, I have no way of accessing the inside of the keel seam from the inside of my boat. If the weld wasn't there, I could flush it out, I assume, but since the inside of the hull seam has been welded... Not sure what to do.

I'm sorry this is so hard for me to explain. If it doesn't make sense, it's my poor explanation, not you guys!

So my plan of attack right now is this:

1. Wash the entire inside and outside of the hull with water, making sure to get anything that's close to or below the waterline. Flush out all the dirt, debris, whatever.
2. Go in with a wire brush and re-hit all the seams that I'm hoping to gluvit, inside and outside.
3. Blow things out with compressed air as best I can
4. Repeat rinse, get all debris out
5. rebuck any loose rivets I find
6. Rinse inside with acetone, do the best I can wiping down outside with acetone.
7. Inspect weld, etc.
8. wire brush with vinegar
9. Rinse with vinegar
10. Take a syringe and try and force gluvit down into seams and under weld, if possibly
11. Brush gluvit on all seams, inside and out.

Any additions or out-of-order steps?

Thanks again for all the helpfulness so far!
 

TruckDrivingFool

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I don't know how the LS hulls are put together but know the SC's are like this, maybe this will shed some light (specifically from 1:00 - 2:20)


1. Yes
2. Just the inside is good for sealing purposes, seams and any rivets you're going to Gluvit. I would do outside on the brace plate for inspection purposes
3. Not required yet but you can.
4. Yes
5. It's as good time as any to do this
6. This I put in as for whatever reason you pic looked as though it had an oil residue - If it's not I'd skip it.
7. Same as 5.
8. Just a nylon hand scrub brush will work and probably be less messy
9.a. An extra vinegar rinse isn't needed but you can.
9.b. Rinse/wash the vinegar out.
9.c. Blowing out w/ compressed air will help get the water out of the seams and help to dry it out
9.d. Allow everything to dry
10. Yes
11. Inside is good but you can do the outside if you want.

As I'm going through this process for the first time myself right now, if I have it wrong hopefully others step in and set us both straight. :)
 
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Thanks to all who have contributed! I will buy some brushes and stuff and get to it this weekend, and keep everyone posted!
 
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