Formula 272 Outdrive Corrosion?

[FormulaCanada]

No Title

Okay guys, change O' plans here. Talking with the seller back and forth and the fact it's an Alpha drive and he's not able to give me much history, and his reluctance to actually accommodate me in the viewing of the boat in any way I've requested I've decided not to go view it.

That said, there is a nice 1989 Formula 292 SR-1 which looks to be in good shape and the seller sounds very sensible and has answered all my questions to satisfaction. It's quite far from me so I'm gonna wait until my week off (Feb 15th week) to go view it...hoping it's still there. He said he'll drop me a line if there's any other buyers showing interest.

Anyway...here's a pic. I'm obviously going to apply all the knowledge you've already mentioned in this thread...is there anything in particular about the 1989 292 which I should be looking for? It's the Bravo 1 drives with 454 - carbureted. Approx $16.9K USD.

 

[tpenfield]

Probably a good idea to move on . . .

The boats are basically the same (272 vs 292), just 2 more feet of running surface. Most of the 2 feet is in the cuddy cabin. The cockpits are about the same. 1989 is the more-matured version of the series of boats that were introduced in 1987.

The Bravo drives are what you want. The 454 engines are what the boat wants and they are good engines. The only draw back is that they have been phased out from a production standpoint, so it is a rebuild market if you have to replace the engines down the road. I did note in the pictures that the exhaust manifolds say 'stainless' on them. So, if they are stainless steel, they will (and probably are) trashing the cylinder heads. I'd replace them with regular steel manifolds.

Otherwise, the boat is the 272's bigger brother, everything is about the same in terms of what to look out for, etc. The 272 and the 311 were more popular; I don't believe that many 292's were made, but I think it is a better size for the engine setup than the 272, and the 311 is just too big for the limited amount of cockpit space that you get.

 

[FormulaCanada]

Are the stainless manifolds aftermarket parts? Or is it a case that the 1989 model year had stainless manifolds?

I just read your article on winter storage and an empty gas tank. Makes a lot of sense. I've been filling it every fall. I even fill my car (which I store for the winter) ...but I guess the same would apply there.

Is there a difference between 454 and 454 magnums (the ad says mags but I don't know how to tell)? Should it matter if the boat is in good shape?

 

[tpenfield]

Manifolds probably would be after market. I do not know if any of the boats of that era came with stainless steel manifolds as stock parts :noidea: Maybe as an option. After 25+ years, a boat may be on its second or third set of manifolds anyway.

My 1996 Formula has stainless steel elbows, but regular steel manifolds, which was a problem - The stainless steel caused the regular steel to corrode - a La the dissimilar metals sort of thing. I fixed it when I installed a 'full' closed cooling system . . . new manifolds as well.

The standard 454 (aka 7.4L) and the 454 Magnum differ in terms of the cylinder head and the intake manifold. The regular 454 has 'Oval' ports and the 454 Mag has 'Rectangular' ports. The rectangular ports, being bigger than the oval, provide more 'top end' so that the engine can produce more horsepower (330 versus 365) and can rev up to about 5000 RPM. The standard 454 is done at 4600 RPM. (There is probably a valve cam difference too to go along with the intake differences)

The way to tell is to look at the intake manifold . . . the rectangular (magnum) style will have more pronounced shapes for the intake ducts in the casting as you look at it. If you can get the serial numbers from the engines (which are located on an ID plate that is riveted to the flywheel housing, just above the starter), then you can confirm the exact engine type, etc.

When I inspect a boat, I often use my cell phone camera (and flash) to take pictures where you cannot easily see. The serial number plate would be one of those things.

the outdrives on that boat look to have a funky cooling system on them . . . at least I think it is a cooling system :noidea: there are also the "K Planes' instead of the standard trim tabs, which is a good thing.

Are you going to be running in fresh water or salt water?

 

[FormulaCanada]

Thanks Ted,

The boat will be in fresh water. Georgian Bay to be precise.

When you say the manifolds will trash the heads; is this because what you say above...dis-similar metals? What will happen with the stainless manifolds exactly...if it hasn't happened already. Why do they even sell em?

What part do you think is the funky cooling system? The 2 hoses down to the prop? What are those anyway...is that the drive showers everyone keeps talking about? I can ask, about the thing you think is funky. Can you take the pic and draw an arrow to it?

 

[tpenfield]

Thanks Ted,

The boat will be in fresh water. Georgian Bay to be precise.

(1) When you say the manifolds will trash the heads; is this because what you say above...dis-similar metals? What will happen with the stainless manifolds exactly...if it hasn't happened already. Why do they even sell em?

(2) What part do you think is the funky cooling system? The 2 hoses down to the prop? What are those anyway...is that the drive showers everyone keeps talking about? I can ask, about the thing you think is funky. Can you take the pic and draw an arrow to it?

(1) Galvanic corrosion is a concern with marine engines, since they go in water and the engines themselves hold lots of water. So, the 'stronger' metal wins and depletes material from the weaker metal. This happens quickly in salt water, and to a lesser extent in fresh water. The more common problem is stainless steel versus aluminum, as in the outdrives versus the propellers, but stainless versus iron can also be a problem. Just something to be aware of and keep an eye on, it may not be a problem.

(2) The 2 hoses leading down to the prop . . . I have not seen two hoses like that, not that it is a bad thing; usually it is a stainless steel tube. It would be interesting to know the type of shower it is. Maybe the guys over on Offshoreonly (OSO) know, since they deal with stuff like this on a regular basis.

The drive showers are to cool the outdrive, which is often needed in high performance boats, like the Formula SR1 series. They bring water up to the top of the outdrive and cool the upper gear set. The lower gears are in the water during cruising, but the upper gears are out of the water and can get too hot if not cooled.

 

[FormulaCanada]

Ted, you're the best. Lol. I totally understand what you're saying about the corrosion. Something to ask the guy for sure. I'll checkout offshore only regarding those hoses.

 

[FormulaCanada]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for all your help, but it appears that the 292 that I was going to see today is claimed to be sold. The guy told me on Thursday that it was still around and now he's saying it's sold. All seems fishy but I can't understand for the life of me why anyone would go to that extent.

Anyway, I'll be sure to come back and ask more questions about the next one which comes up for sale


Rob

 

[tpenfield]

Wow, does sound unusual. Keep looking you will find something. Probably more boats coming on the market in the next 4-8 weeks as Spring approaches.

 

[tpenfield]

There is the one at Lake George NY . . . 1989 F-292 SR1. No trailer. It is on criagslist. A bit pricey at $26K USD, but maybe it can be had for less.

 

[FormulaCanada]

ya, I thought it was very strange. You're right, I'm sure there will be more in the next few weeks...leading to the summer. I would have liked the exposure looking at the boats...more I look at the better idea I have. I've looked at 1 other so far...it had everything wrong with it that I read is bad, haha; so that was very clear. I'll keep looking, please if you come across some send me the link, I'll take a look at the lake george ad. thx.

 

[FormulaCanada]

can't find the lake george one....u have a link? there's plenty formula's out there...all in the US.

 

[tpenfield]

it came up in Boston, but the location is Lake George, NY

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/boa/5437760092.html

 

[FormulaCanada]

it came up in Boston, but the location is Lake George, NY

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/boa/5437760092.html

Wow Ted,

It looks in very good shape, but your right, seems a tad pricy for an 89. Granted you get what you pay for...and no trailer...