Big wooden boat project [Splashed Sept 2017]

[Baylinerchuck]

That's great progress Ned. I love this thread. Keep it up sir!!

 

[coostv]

I don't get into this section enough and have missed this from the start... Your boat and work you have done intrigued me to go back to the start and look it over from the beginning! Awesome job and thanks for posting the details for all to see! I gleaned quite a bit of information from this thread and your work, outstanding!

Following along for the much anticipated launch!

 

[Ned L]

Again, Thanks for the complements and comments. I'm always interested in answering any questions someone may have. Sorry about not updating the progress for a couple of weeks. Things have been progressing, sometimes I've forgotten to take pictures as I go along, some of it hasn't been picture worthy, and some I've just been tied up traveling to Minnesota and back. .... Anyway.....

The next step was putting the fuel tanks back in, however I knew there was at least some work needed before tossing them back in the boat. Among other indicators, when I first brought the boat home (almost three years ago now), and got the engines going, I noticed that the valving for the fuel tanks had both engines drawing off the port tank and nothing from the starboard tank. I definitely thought that a bit curious, maybe it meant nothing, maybe it meant something. Well, when I remove the cockpit sole this past winter and pulled the tanks I found that the pipe fitting for the vent fitting in the starboard tank was just rattling around in the top of the tank, and the tank had about 5 - 7 gallons of just ugly looking green water in it. That explained the fuel valving as it was. Apparently the solder joint for the vent fitting had let go decades ago, they were getting water in the tank, and so the tank was simply "condemned" and the boat ran only on the port tank for decades.
Now that I had the tanks out I could correct that.

These tanks are Monel. Monel pretty much makes Stainless Steel look cheap and disposable. It also has the advantage that it does not have to be welded, it "soft solders" very well. This made the tank easily repairable. Monel used to be a fairly common material for tanks on custom and semi-custom boats from the 1930?s well into the 1970?s.







Here is the Monel stamp on one of the tanks.

So saying, I know they needed some attention, but were completely repairable (even though they are 560 years old).

Once I felt I had made the repair to the vent fitting on that one tank, and touched up a spot that looked like it may have done a bit of weeping years ago it was time to pressure test them.

Here is the rivet that may have done some weeping.

It also helps to have a number of REALLY big old electric soldering irons at home (I mean with like 1 pound copper tips on them).

Here is the tank set up for pressure testing.

I sealed up all the openings, attached a 5 PSI pressure gauge, and connected the airline from the compressor with a regulator.

Add a bit of air.

......... and then go over everything with soapy water looking for bubbles. I actually did find a couple of small spots where the solder had basically worn through where the hold down blocks had rubbed. Touched those up and ..... no bubbles, no leaks.

The one tank that had been condemned decades ago was good to go. I gave the inside a good washing and sloshing with Dawn dish detergent and lots of water (again, it had not seen any gasoline in decades). The inside came out nice and clean looking.

I also found and retrieved 5 broken of fuel dip sticks from one tank, and two from the other (another indicator that one tank saw a lot more use than the other).

Now I have two 60 year old 60 gallon fuel tanks that have been pressure tested and are as good as new.

 

[Pusher]

Man, that boat has more stories than some men

 

[Scott Danforth]

Monel is some good material. I use Monel staples when I do interior work as stainless will rust.

Its basically a really high nickle copper alloy (63% nickle, 34% copper) with the tensile strength of 304 stainless.

 

[kcassells]

Wow thanks and what a cool bit of work with the tanks.

 

[Ned L]

And after I had the tanks back in I gave a hard look at one spot on a stringer (where a backing block for the steering cable bracket had been bolted along side it). I knew there was a bit of soft wood where the two blocks overlapped each other. The more I poked the more I found that the rot had traveled inside the core of the stringer. (Hey!, .... this is something that a lot of you guys can finally relate to!!! Rot in a stringer! LOL ) Mine was definitely limited to to a fairly small area of the 16 foot stringer though. I decided the easiest and fastest way to address it was to cut off the last almost 4 feet on a 10:1 taper and scarf on a new 'tail' with a bit of epoxy and bronze screws. Well, that is one advantage of a wooden boat I suppose. When wood gets wet it can usually dry out with no harm done (except in cases like this where two pieces were bolted up against each other, which is where the problem started.
And like lots of projects I had a "while I have access" moment. .................. The floor under the part of the stringer that I had cut out was in less than great shape, so I decided that this being the only time there would ever be access it was worth replacing that too. (As a refresher, a "floor" in a boat is a transverse strength member that usually ties the keel to the stringers. Here on Iboats people seem to call them "bulkheads". (Bulkheads are different)). this floor was also has the rear most strut bolts passing through it, so it is sort of important.
Sorry for lack of pictures, but here is the new section of white oak floor going in. that is the bottom side that is up. It is jogged to fit along the laps of the planking.

And then comes a bit of a 'hold your breath' moment. When you drill up from the bottom of the boat for the strut bolts and hope you come out somewhere near the center of the floor on the inside.

Nothing like taking a 1/2" drill to the bottom of the boat and thinking 'I hope it comes out where I want it'. Once the first hole is drilled the second is a piece of cake, from the first hole you know how to adjust for the second.

Then it was finally time to start installing the new white oak deck beams! First I took one of the old beams back out to the boat to check exactly how it fit. That was followed by a real 'O-crap" moment, ...... it was too short!! By 1 1/2"!!!!! Hmmmmmmm, ...... Had the boat spread while I had her gutted and replacing the rib sections??? I figured I would set up two rail road ties with a come-along again (third time on the boat) and pull her back together.

Well, her sides easily started to come in, but the fuel tanks also started to make some noise as the hull pressed in on them. OK, time to stop, think, check, and think again.
I pulled out the old deck beams, put them in place, and then realized by looking at old wear and paint and fastening markings that they always were 'too short'. ...... Again, being a semi-production built boat there were probably parts built off of standard patterns. That would appear to have been the case with these deck beams. So I think I determined where the sides of the boat 'should' be, .... only about 1/2" in from where they were (1/4" each side) not bad.
I am now cutting the new deck beams to the final length to fit the boat nicely, and everything seems to be going nicely again.

Here are the two aft beams, with the one inside the transom steamed and bent over a form a couple of months ago, now in place and fitting just right.

and most of the other ones sitting in place.

I'm taking Mon. & Tues. off to work on her. Hopefully things will look much differently with my next update.

 

[Pusher]

Very thourough work Ned. Thanks as always for sharing.

I am a little slow, so can I work this out with you?
The keel is secured to floors running width-wise to which we attach stringers running lengthwise on top, which is what our sole is laid on top of (and what we walk on)? Did I get it right?

 

[Ned L]

Very thourough work Ned. Thanks as always for sharing.

I am a little slow, so can I work this out with you?
The keel is secured to floors running width-wise to which we attach stringers running lengthwise on top, which is what our sole is laid on top of (and what we walk on)? Did I get it right?

Yep you got that exactly right.

In general, it makes sort of 'ladder' type of framework. the stingers are the side rails of the ladder, the floors are the rungs of the ladder, and the keel would be running down the center.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Very thourough work Ned. Thanks as always for sharing.

I am a little slow, so can I work this out with you?
The keel is secured to floors running width-wise to which we attach stringers running lengthwise on top, which is what our sole is laid on top of (and what we walk on)? Did I get it right?

Ha ha!!! I just sent Ned a PM because I didn't want to hijack his thread due to my lack of nautical terminology...and I get long. I have the same questions as you pusher. I'm also curious if these terms are also used on glass and metal boats. I also noticed that stringers have an aeronautical definition, not a nautical one. So are those actually keelsons in boats and not stringers? Good stuff!!

 

[Ned L]

Baylinerchuck, I got your PM. Personally I don't mind questions or thread drifts at all. They are all welcome and I'll do the best I can to answer them, and if I don't know an answer I'll say that.

I'll start off with, people have been building wooden boats for a fair bit longer than they have been building wooden airframes, so I might guess it is the other way around, (the airplane guys took the term from the boat guys) but that is pretty much a guess. ??

To some of the terms you asked about, even in wooden boats there can be some gray areas about terms.

Generally, the main structural 'backbone' of a boat is the keel (we all know that). On a wooden boat it is Usually identifiable as a distinct piece of wood (or number of pieces of wood fastened together on a large boat). The keel is a mostly external piece of wood that the "frames" are then set up on. On some smaller lighter boats where there is no heavy external timber piece, but more of a flat board like piece of wood, it can be referred to as a "keel batten". Generally metal boats (steel/aluminum with have some distinct piece that can be identified as a keel or keel batten. On a glass boat ( really a monocoque construction) certainly there is no no distinct "keel member". The "keel" is more defined by shape and location (centerline area of the hull) and even in a glass hull will typically have a heavier layup schedule of materials.
A "keelson" , another term you asked about, does not exist in a glass boat. ..... Back to how you would build a large wooden boat. You have your keel, you set up your frames ("U" shaped pieces), then on the inside of the hull is laid another heavy structural member on top of the frames, directly above the keel, this is a "keelson". that is through fastened though all the pieces. That is the correct term of a keelson.
On 'normal' size wooden boats that may have a vertical plank keel, with a sort of plank siting on top of it in a "T" form to which the frames and planks are fastened , many people call that top member of the "T" the keelson, that is more correctly a keel batten.
Stingers are structural members parallel to the centerline and outboard of the keel. Stringers are usually up on edge and straight. If they are laid down flat-wise and sprung into place against the inside of the hull, they are "bilge clamps".

you are correct, "floors" are the structural members that run crosswise from one stringer to the other, tying the stringers and keel together. As you stated "So the air tight spaces in which I pour foam between the stringers,and floor". "Bulkheads" may or may not be structural, but are generally what you would consider "walls". They can run fore and aft or athwartships and divide the internal space of the hull into usable compartments.

I hope this helps a bit and did not just confuse things.

 

[Pusher]

Most all of that made sense here. Thanks Ned!

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Yes sir, that makes perfect sense. Thanks so much for the education. I absolutely love this thread.

 

[Ned L]

Oh,.... For others here, the first part of my reply above had to do with the origin of the term "stingers". A term in both boat and wooden airframe construction.

 

[mickyryan]

hm and here i thought " stingers was when ya wife slapped ya butt with that towel ... who knew

 

[Ned L]

Lol,...... good catch Micky,.... And wouldn't you know it's too late for me to fix that typo to "stringer". Oh well.

 

[Ned L]

Time for a little delayed updating.

So then it was time to relay the original teak.

And of course that was easier said than done...................
When I laid the planks down there was significant 'slop' in the spacing between them. I had to try a couple of different ideas for spacing the planks perfectly so there would be even width seams all across the sole. I finally ended up with these little things that I made up out of aluminum roof flashing.

which when folded closed acted like two thicknesses of the aluminum

And it only took a couple of hundred of them!!!

Once the planking was spaced properly and screwed in place (with a thousand bronze wood screws) it was time to plug all the screw holes.

So first I had to cut the thousand + plugs out of teak.

And glue them in place.

The next step was to caulk all the seams with cotton caulking. ........ Time to pull out the caulking tools

this is a caulking iron. In the kit of a traditional caulker there would be a dozen or more different irons, all different sizes and shapes for different size boats and different locations (large boats & ships have heavier planking, bigger seams and need thicker irons, the garboard seam against the keel needs an iron with a curve in it, etc.)

Here is one of my caulking mallets. Well worn, but very usable.

And here I'm working along three seams at a time with traditional cotton.

The idea is to work in the correct amount of cotton for what the seam requires. Shorter and longer tucks (adjusting more and less cotton) in the seams as required as the seam changes.

Proper caulking serves two purposes. One is to make the seam water tight, and two is to stiffen things up. When I first laid the teak planking the deck was quite springy as the planks could bend, flex and move independently. After the sole is caulked, the cotton locks all the planks together and the sole becomes one solid tight surface.
Proper caulking is a true learned art, being able to caulk tightly enough, but not to tightly. I think I managed a reasonably respectable job that will work ok, I'm certainly no expert - but it will do.

After the deck was all caulked, the plugs trimmed, and sanded just enough to clean things up it was time to mask all the seams as apply black seam compound on top of the cotton.

After the tape is peeled up things are reasonably respectable looking

Now I can proceed with the re-assembly of the ceiling.

 

[kcassells]

So just wondering about the cotton. Why not use a oiled hemp/oakum like plumbers use. Expands when wet but does have an oil residual base. Work looks great!

 

[Ned L]

Good question. ... In traditional (boat) caulking both may be used, however there are specific places and times to use each one.
In wooden boat construction, caulking seams (in both hulls and decks) are actually a "V" shape. One or both sides of the planks have what is called a "caulking bevel" applied. This means that the edge or side of the plank has a slight chamfer (about 5 degrees) cut on the edge. This chamfer is applied to only about 3/4 of the thickness of the plank, so that when the planks are laid tight to each other there is a narrow "V" in the seam that goes only about 3/4 of the way down.
When you caulk properly you want to drive the caulking into only this "V", and not damage the edges of the wood.
There are differences between cotton and oakum caulking. Cotton has much finer fibers, and oakum much coarser. When you start caulking a seam (any size boat or ship, with proper seams) you 'always' start with cotton. The cotton will fit in and fill the very bottom and smallest part of the "V" seam. On boats up to typically about 75 ft +/- , or a bit over an inch in thickness +/-, the seams are small enough to use only cotton. On larger vessels, with thicker heavier planking, and therefore larger seams; after the bottom of the seam is filled with cotton and the cotton has been "hardened up" driven in tightly, you then come back and lay in your tucks of oakum ( with the bigger heavier fibers).
So, cotton is for small seams and the bottom (small part) of large seams, and oakum is for the upper portion of large seams.
I hope this answers your question.

Ohhhh,.... and although "plumbers oakum" is oakum, and the 'same' material as caulking oakum there is a big difference in how it is put up. Plumbing oakum is twisted fairly tightly into an almost "rope" type of presentation. Caulking oakum is in a very soft, loosely spun type of presentation, looking a fair bit like my caulking cotton (loose and fluffy), except brown in color and with the larger fibers.

 

[kcassells]

Perfect! The tools you are using are/were much like the tools of the trade used to pack a joint prior to pouring lead for a caste iron hub or fitting. History to many today. Thank you for yor reply. I've manipulated oakum so many times for different resaons in my trade that as you explained suit the need for the purpose.