Light cuddy to tow with a Subaru Forester?

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Hello, all! I hope this isn't a rehash of any older posts, but I couldn't find anything during my searches that would help. I could really use some advice from some of you experienced boaters out there.

Currently I have a lovable old 15' Glastron bowrider that I tow with a Subaru Forester. The rig is so light sometimes I forget it's back there until I look into the rearview mirror and see a boat tailgating me. That's always a little disconcerting. . . Anyway, now I've got a couple of kids and I'm looking for a small cuddy ski boat (protected waters).

My Subaru is rated for 2400 lbs towing in the US, and 4800 everywhere else in the world. I assume the difference has to do with American marketing or regulation and not the car itself.

I have two questions.
1. Should I stay under the American towing limit? If I'm a bit over do I risk a fine? I really do think the capability of the car is much more.
2. Can anyone recommend lightly built cuddies? Most of the ones I'm looking at are 2000 or newer and they are all pretty wide and heavily built. 2700 lbs is about as light as I can find one, and that's before gas and trailer.

Thanks in advance for the info!

[Bubba1235]

1. Should I stay under the American towing limit? If I'm a bit over do I risk a fine? I really do think the capability of the car is much more.

Thanks in advance for the info!

If you don't and god forbid, you get into an accident, your insurance company will throw you to the wolves like they never heard of you. If there were a death you would face manslaughter charges even if you were not the cause of the accident. No way could you claim ignorance or that you didn't knowing operate the vehicle in an unsafe manner.

[surge006]

The main concern would be the boat taking over control of the car if something were to happen like swerving or braking. Most anything can tow more than it is capiable of towing its just not safe. Is it illegal ? No. Its not but i wouldnt wanna with my family in the car.

[ezmobee]

I cannot think of a single cuddy you could safely tow with a Forester.

[Gary H NC]

The main concern would be the boat taking over control of the car if something were to happen like swerving or braking. Most anything can tow more than it is capiable of towing its just not safe. Is it illegal ? No. Its not but i wouldnt wanna with my family in the car.

Agree.....A short wheelbase vehicle like that was just not designed for towing heavy loads.It would not take much for the boat to push the tow vehicle sideways in an emergency stop condition.
Also you never want to tow the max rating anyway.Add gear,fuel,passengers,ect there is no way i would hitch a boat that size to the Subaru..

[NYBo]

There are some older cuddies in the 17' range that will be light enough. However, with such a light tow vehicle, I would absolutely add brakes to the trailer and a transmission cooler to the Subaru.

[smokeonthewater]

If you can afford a 2000 and newer cuddy then you can afford an old 80's chevy pickup to pull it with and occasionally haul a couch for a buddy

why destroy your car and risk lives to save on buying a $1500 pickup

[RotaryRacer]

C-Dory 16'.

http://www.c-dory.com/boats/classic/cruiser-16/

Towing weight would be less the 2000 lbs.

[roscoe]

14' Mayland
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAYLAND-14-CUD...item27af354019


Aeroliner

http://www.autotrader.ca/result/deta...ndlandlabrador



I'm with smoke, spend a couple grand on a truck, then get the boat you really want.

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Thank you all for your input, and especially RotaryRacer for the link to a very interesting looking C-dory. I've never seen one of those before but they look like a definite possibility.

I remember growing up in the 70's when nobody would think twice about towing a 20' boat with a car while the kids hopped around in the back seat unrestrained. It's interesting how our perception of risk has changed lately, isn't it? I wonder if our children will be horrified that we took them boating without automatically inflating exposure suits and individual EPIRBs?

[JB]

I can't imagine a cuddy that I would try to tow with my Forester, even with trailer brakes.

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Hey, I just saw that Mayland link from Roscoe. That's a really cute boat. I'd need two of them to pull me on skis though!

I get where you guys are coming from on the big old truck concept, but if we're just talking about safety I'd still take a modern Subaru with all wheel drive, electronic stability control, six airbags and modern engineering over an old Chevy and just go a little smaller on the boat.

Don't get me wrong, I like big old trucks on a visceral level and old sports cars, too. I just don't fool myself into thinking they are all that safe. Statistically speaking, you're much more likely to die in a pickup than in something like a modern Honda Civic.

[windsors03cobra]

The idea is to drive and tow safe, you dont have to participate in a Nascar race with the truck while towing the boat.
I'll take the pick up truck in an accident against a civic.

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Speaking of racing and towing. . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHHmQ_e2X_8

So this would not be the right way to pull a boat, right? It kinda reminds me of the boat ramp on Memorial Day.

[jeffnick]

I loved my Arima. 15'11" X 7 1/2'. Boat/engine/trailer = 2150lbs.

http://www.arimaboats.com/se16.htm

[ezmobee]

That thing is cool ^^^^^

[jonesg]

Check out aluminum , 18' cuddy , they tend to be quite light, very nice boats.
I agree you can snag v8 pickups very cheap these days if you need one.
I use a large van.

[Gary H NC]

Thank you all for your input, and especially RotaryRacer for the link to a very interesting looking C-dory. I've never seen one of those before but they look like a definite possibility.

I remember growing up in the 70's when nobody would think twice about towing a 20' boat with a car while the kids hopped around in the back seat unrestrained. It's interesting how our perception of risk has changed lately, isn't it? I wonder if our children will be horrified that we took them boating without automatically inflating exposure suits and individual EPIRBs?

All well and good but those cars back in the 70's weighed at least twice of what the new cars weigh.
I drive big rigs for a living and have towed everything you could imagine with dually pick up trucks.Until you have one push you sideways when trying to stop you will not understand. Not worth risking lives by using a small tow vehicle.
I tow my 21 ft cuddy with a Chevy Tahoe and believe me,a panic stop can still get hairy.
Not trying to be cynical but safety for the family and other motorist should come first.
I have seen so many wrecks with boats and campers hooked to these small SUV vehicles.
The weight of whats being towed versus the weight and short wheelbase of the tow vehicle can be a deadly combination.

Just the other day i came across a Honda Odessy van that was towing about a 18 ft bowrider. Both were destroyed and in a mangled heap in the median.

As far as being safer in a new Honda Civic versus an older truck as someone mentioned....i would take the truck any day.

I had a new Honda Accord pull out in front of me a few years back.
My Tahoe needed a new bumper and grill...the Honda was a total loss.

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

Hey, that Arima is cool. Now the trick would be to find one in my area. All the dealerships are in New England and the Pacific NW, but I'm sure some must have trickled down. I like the C-Dory too, even though they seem to have ripped off their name from Cape Dory yachts. This forum is great. Thanks, guys.

Here's my boating philosophy in case anyone cares. Smaller is better. Easier to launch, easier to tow, cheaper to operate, less polluting.

When I have a bigger crowd than can fit in my boat, I either shuttle them to a park that becomes our base of operations or we go raft up with other friendly folks. It's more fun that way. The talkers can talk, the skiers can ski, and the snoozers can snooze.

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

[QUOTE=Gary H NC;2509615]All well and good but those cars back in the 70's weighed at least twice of what the new cars weigh.
QUOTE]

I thought that too. Those old cars sure do look heavy, but surprisingly modern cars weigh about the same as their older counterparts. Their engines, sheetmetal and frames are lighter (though stronger and stiffer), but newer cars have a bunch of other stuff, like 30 miles of copper for electronics, airbags, more padded seats, etc. that really adds up. Don't take my word for it - look up curb weights if you like. Compare, say, a Ford Galaxie to a new Taurus. (Both about 4000 lb) Strange but true.

[smokingcrater]

The idea is to drive and tow safe, you dont have to participate in a Nascar race with the truck while towing the boat.
I'll take the pick up truck in an accident against a civic.

might want to reconsider...

in a multi vehicle accident, you are about 2x as likely to die in a pickup/suv compared to your average car.

In a single vehicle accident, it goes up to 4x more likely to meet the big guy upstairs. (if you put a pickup/suv into the ditch, you probably are going to roll) Father-in-law is a 25 year retired highway patrol. His experience and stories back those up. He pretty much knew if there was a pickup involved it most likely rolled, and your chances go down once your wheels are up.

And your odds in a pickup vs car collision aren't any better. Almost always the car will lift up a corner of the pickup and send it wheels up, while the car spins out.

I had a new Honda Accord pull out in front of me a few years back.
My Tahoe needed a new bumper and grill...the Honda was a total loss.

About 2 months ago there was a picture on the front page of a local paper. Honda civic pulled out in front of a F250. Civic had a damaged front end, nothing too bad but probably not totaled either. The owner was shaken but not hurt. Pickup was upside down in the ditch, cab collapsed, owner was under a white sheet. The car had pulled out without seeing the truck, the truck hit the front end and lifted up, rolled, slid over a curb and down the ditch upside down. Accidents like this a VERY common.

[Cap'n_Half-hitch]

At the risk of going way off topic, I definitely agree with SmokingCrater. While the perception of many people is that a big truck is always safer, the numbers don't lie. How many lives could be saved if that perception changed?

Now I will somewhat reverse myself and say that life is risky. Hardly anyone gets out of it alive. I like risky sports and I accept the conseqenses if I get injured or die. To know the risks and still choose to take them is one thing, but the big SUV industry has mislead the general public into thinking their vehicles are the safest on the road. They are playing on our fears for profit. That's immoral.

[dorelse]

might want to reconsider...

About 2 months ago there was a picture on the front page of a local paper. Honda civic pulled out in front of a F250. Civic had a damaged front end, nothing too bad but probably not totaled either. The owner was shaken but not hurt. Pickup was upside down in the ditch, cab collapsed, owner was under a white sheet. The car had pulled out without seeing the truck, the truck hit the front end and lifted up, rolled, slid over a curb and down the ditch upside down. Accidents like this a VERY common.

I'm with you on that particular accident where a truck gets launched via a nice Civic ramp. That said, physics still applies...a compact/small car will always lose when trying absorb the kinetic energy of a much larger truck. The IIHS even backed that up when they completed testing of all the new subcompacts that started arriving a few years ago. They said a Smart car (just an example) will always suffer significantly more damage in a collision vs a Suburban.

Do trucks rollover more? Absolutely, and I would agree that there will be more injuries if that happens. I think both arguments are 100% valid...the outcomes of either vehicle (and occupants) will depend greatly on the specific parameters of each accident.

On topic regarding the Forrester towing a boat over its rated weight capacity:

I think there is a major flaw in the OP's logic...the HUGE assumption that a UK Forrester (which is rated at a tow capacity of 4800 lbs) is built exactly the same as a US Forrester.

IF they are, then yes, it might be Subaru attempting to reduce liability in the US. (Kind of begs the question of why he's so eager to increase his personal liability, no only in $$ but his family's safety...)

Regardless, its his decision, and I truly do respect it. My only thought is this...the Brit's tend to be pretty uptight about their car's safety reg's as well, so I would think that if the Forrester was marginal at towing 4800 lbs it wouldn't be rated for it. That leads me to believe that their could be differences in the cars (say upgraded brakes, or something) that makes the US version less likely to be able to tow it.

I have towed with my Kia minivan, rated at 3500 lbs, at its max capacity, and the same boat & gear with my truck, rated to tow 8000 lbs. Both did fine, however, the boat & minivan combo, you could definitely feel the tail wagging the dog, and my brake rotors warped b/c of the heat...so it definitely was at its limit. (And if rotors are warping from the heat, it was over its limit...)

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck.

BTW...if you're talking about a 3 mile trip to the local lake on flat terrain going 30 mph...then yeah, I'd tow with it too...

[roscoe]

Your all wheel drive, electronic stability control, and all the prayers in the world won't help you when your rear wheels are jacked up off the ground and the car is 90* to the trailer, with the trailer pushing you into oncoming traffic. Or when the wind catches the boat and pulls you off the road.

I'll steer clear of Tn on my next trip south.


And yes, you need brakes on the trailer.

Lets not even mention the combined weight rating of cargo passengers and trailer.

[JoLin]

Your all wheel drive, electronic stability control, and all the prayers in the world won't help you when your rear wheels are jacked up off the ground and the car is 90* to the trailer, with the trailer pushing you into oncoming traffic. Or when the wind catches the boat and pulls you off the road.

I'll steer clear of Tn on my next trip south.

+1

Capacity ratings exist for a reason. Good reason. Legitimate reason. Reason based on a desire to not kill innocent people.

I don't drive a 3/4 ton truck as my daily driver because I just love buying gas. I drive it bacause it has the capacity to pull and stop my boat. My 1/2 ton didn't, so I bought a different vehicle!

GCWR- check
Tongue Weight - check
Tow Capacity - check