Advice needed. Sold boat, motor "blew" first time he took it out.

[ken_23434]

Need some advice/opinions:

I sold my boat that had a 3.0 Mercruiser engine (mid 1980's boat/motor).

I last took the boat out about June 20th. Ran it up and down a local river w/ 6 of us on board (3 adults, 3 kids). The trip up river to the swimming hole was cruising about half throttle, the return trip (weather rolling in) was mostly full throttle. The boat was running great. No signs of any engine related problems.

We bought a new boat (pontoon) because we wanted to be able to have more people comfortably on the boat for fishing and such. The run-about was listed on Craig's List.

Well, someone called about it and bought it this past week. I cleaned it up a little and double checked the engine starting before he came out. The engine started immediately when cranked, oil pressure was good, temperature came up as expected (fresh water cooled).

About 5 hours after that run, the buyer came over to see the boat. Started it for him. Once again, it started right up, and ran like "normal". He paid cash on the spot and took it home.

He said his dad had a couple boats, but I felt like he did not have a lot of experience w/ them. He had to ask about how to raise/lower the outdrive and a few other things...

Well, I get an email today stating that he took the boat out Friday. "It took 20 minutes to start" and "the engine blew and threw a rod after getting out on the bay".

I feel bad for him, but I do not know how to respond.

I don't feel responsible but I can understand he will likely feel "duped". I have no idea if he was running it wide open, trimmed incorrectly and over reving the engine, jumped waves and over reved it etc... Then again, he could have been running it "normally" and it decided to let go (it is about 30 years old).

It would be different if it was low on oil pressure and knocking real bad, THEN I decided to sell it. To tell the truth, I would rather had that boat than the pontoon (it's slow). I trusted the old one and was not concerned w/ the reliability of the motor.

[nikon]

Sounds like you had an honest sale. There's no telling what happened after it left your possession. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there are alot of scumbags out there. Same time it doesn't sound like the new owner has any recourse against you.

[Don S]

And the question is ................. ?????

[rasbury]

yepo

[emoney]

That's why every sale needs to be "As-Is" with no contingencies. We all know that these older boats, regardless of how well we've treated them, can give up the ghost at about any time. I, for one, don't see where you have any responsibility in this matter, other than a condolence email, maybe.

[ken_23434]

I did not make any promises or guarantees. I told him I did not know how many hours were on the engine (no hour meter), that I got the motor used off Ebay and put it in there about 4 years ago, and it had worked OK for me.


I feel bad for him, but I honestly did not feel like there was anything "eminent" going wrong with it. Heck, I had thought about taking it out w/ the family instead of the new boat since the old one was faster and the kids liked going fast and doing the whole "Titanic" thing (leaning over the front in the wind, not the hitting an iceberg and sinking)

[ken_23434]

And the question is ................. ?????

Guess I forgot to put the question in there. I got an email from the buyer telling me what happened and he said "I am very disappointed..."

I am not sure what my reply to him should be... if anything.

He did not say he wanted his money back, or that he feels I $crewed him over or anything like that.

Strange, cause on the way home from work I thought that I would send him an email and ask how everything went for him this weekend and to see if there was anything he had questions about and such...

[Pinwheel]

I'm sure his inexperience had something to do with the engine failure. If it ran for you and you hadn't abused it, it should have run for him but since you weren't there, you don't know what he did. I'd refer him to a trustworthy mechanic and wish him well.

[thumpar]

Who knows what he did to it. Being inexperienced he could have ran the engine without water, not enough to over heat but enough to ruin the impeller. Then when he gets to the lake he doesn't know to pump the throttle once and then start it or pumped and pumped till he flooded it, taking forever to start. He finally got it running and it overheated badly without a good impeller and blew up. Or like you said maybe it was the motors time but that doesn't explain the 20 minutes to start.

I would probably ask what happened but don't sound at all like you are going to give the money back. Just sound interested in how he did it. Maybe he will explain how he did something newbish and blew it.

[Don S]

Since this isn't an engine repair question, and more of a problem with selling it. I'm going to move it over to the Boat topics forum.

As a note, it may have overheated because he started it out of the water and burned up the impeller, then went boating and didn't watch the gauge. You can't be responsible for his mistakes.

I watched a video of a guy running his engine on the street, drive up, no water. Then once he had it running, jumped in his van and headed for the ramp. Engine still running ......................

You can also read many threads in the IO forum about hard starting only to find the owner didn't know how to start a carbed engine.

[ulo]

I'd simply reply.....sorry. Leave it at that. Even if he did everything correctly; at the time he broke it, it was HIS boat.

[sw33ttooth]

i find it vary difficult to sell things to poeple when there "dad" ownd one back in the day. a lot of little things you dont notice if your not driving the boat i/e the trim/tilt, and i had a very similar thing happen to me. guy called up wanting the boat i had for sale great running boat, but he had no idea how to drive a boat because his family used to own boats back in the day but currently dont. after i sold him the boat i said do you feel comfertable driving this now or do you want me to go out on your first trip, later that day we went out and i showed him how to start it and what to do and not to do.

end result after the sale is compleat its his boat. if hes angry let him be angry, you sold him a good motor and you even told him you didnt know a lot about that motor. rods typically break from lack of oil if he wasnt watching the guage well thats his fault then. just sucks when stuff like this happens.

[emilsr]

While I applaud your sense of right and wrong, the fact is the guy bought a 30 year old boat without checking it out. He didn't have it surveyed, didn't have a mechanical inspection done, and doesn't have the knowledge to do those things himself (all assumptions, so correct me if I'm wrong). He also didn't do a sea trial. Unless I missed something he didn't do any of the things that you should do on a used boat purchase, and who knows what he did (or didn't do) after he hauled it away.

Of course he's going to feel "duped", but he probably doesn't know any better. Unless you know the guy personally I'd leave it alone. Nothing you can possibly say or do (other than giving his money back) is going to resolve anything. His "new to him" boat blew up; that's all he's going to understand. It's a shame really.

[AZBoatDreamer]

He is out of luck. Go enjoy your Slow boat Toon.

Did you provide him any Maintenance Records showing the boat was properly maintained?

[mphy98]

Not to hijack this but along a similar vein, do you even know for sure that it blew up? I sold a boat to a guy years ago. He called me a month later saying it was junk and the motor was smoking and wanted compensation. I said "sorry but you bought it as is and it did run fine when it left me, and you had it for a month." I had a friend at the local marina and he had told me later this guy came in for a tune up and had the impeller replaced along with some other minor things. He told the mechanic to give it the works as he was going to get the previous owner to reimburse him anyway. Little did he know that the mechanic knew me and the boat. When he called back the second time I let him rave on and then informed him that I knew what he was up to and not to bother me again. He did not. So This might be a ploy to get the boat cheaper or some work he feels needs to be done.

[25thmustang]

I recall a post on this site from years ago about the exact same scenario. As I remember the end result was the seller got sued and lost. Even without purposely screwing someone he was found to be at fault.

[Leardriver]

Good post, 25thmustang!

The courts take a dim view of this sort of thing. If you sell a boat that appears to be running, the buyer has an expectation that the boat will perform as a boat for some period of time. Maybe 2-3 outings. You would have to show extreme abuse or actions taken by the buyer that caused it to fail so quickly.

All the disclaimers in the world, such as as-is, etc, won't help you. If the buyer sues, he will likely win. Since the dollar amount can be handled in small claims court, usually under $5,000, he can sue for free.

The only disclaimer that could possibly work is the phrase "Does not run, sold for parts only" or something along those lines. And, of course, who would agree to those terms?

It's a different world that we live in.

[Home Cookin']

A friend of mine sold half interest in a nice fishing boat to a friend of his, and it blew an engine within about 2 weeks. No one's fault, just happened, as boats will do. $6000. Welcome to boating!

[smokeonthewater]

which is EXACTLY why you don't send an email saying you are sorry (potentially shows guilt).... If you are inclined to help him out of the goodness of your heart do so with caution that you could lose a law suit because you helped him..... If you are not inclined to help him then I'd say just save the email along with any other correspondence just in case he sues you

[cribber]

What smoke said!!! You sold it "as is" and do not email anything back to him admitting otherwise. It worked properly when it left your possession I'm with the others he likely ran it up without muffs or sucked debris into the cooling system and blew the motor.

[thumpar]

In most if not all states unless you misrepresent or guarantee the boat in some way it is an as-is sale even if it is not written or said.

[MTboatguy]

Here in Montana, as-is, where-is means exactly that, you ran the boat for him and have no responsibility once it is towed away, you have no responsibility other than feeling sorry for him,(don't tell him that) I would simply explain, you listened to it run, you made a choice to purchase the boat, and you own it. Disappointed and sue is a long ways in between. I have purchased items in the past, that worked perfectly when I looked at it, and refused to work once I got it home, happened this weekend with a compressor I bought, but I am a big boy and willing to accept I purchased a used item that worked when I paid for it, what happened afterword is not the sellers responsibility.

Like I said, feel bad for him, but it is his problem..bought and paid for...

[oops!]

I recall a post on this site from years ago about the exact same scenario. As I remember the end result was the seller got sued and lost. Even without purposely screwing someone he was found to be at fault.

after 3 different court dates....case was dsmissed.....cb won



here it is.......the epic thread by country bumpkin....

sold a boat and it busted.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread....ld+boat+busted

exact same scenario.

i think don is right.....the buyer fired it up in his driveway with out the muffs

[mnypitboat]

Glad you sold it in time. Tell him that.

I am kidding. But as others have said here, if you even give him a penny toward any repairs you are setting up an implied warranty. Then he can sue you. Trust me, I had a small used car dealership for a time and I learned this the hard way. I always tried to help people out, but I had one that just thought I was his bank and everything was free after I replaced a power window switch. He took me to court over some rips in the seats, after he drove it for 20k miles, and he won. Judge said sorry but you implied a warranty when you fixed the switch. So dont set yourself for that mess. It cost me $1500 over a $10 pw switch.

[ken_23434]

Thanks for all the advice or comments...

I called him up and talked for a few minutes. He wasn't mad or upset w/ me at all. He had it checked out today and they said it over heated and blew the motor. Something about a hose for the freshwater cooling not being hooked up correctly. I don't think I trust that diagnosis. The fw system was replaced a couple summers ago, and it has been run (and hard) quite a few times since.

He had a 12N-M tow by Sea-Tow back to the dock. OUCH

I totally expected someone that would be yelling, cussing etc, but he wasn't. He stated the hull and the rest were in good condition and he was looking into a repower or selling off the rest of the boat.